Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 GreyMorgan Aug 01, 2014 0:07:06	The rules seem to be fairly clear on this but I want to be certain.  It looks like wizards and clerics start knowing only 3 cantrips and they don't learn any new ones until they reach the levels that increase their cantrip count.    Given that you can swap out which active spells you know I want to make certain tha cantrips are a fixed item.  I suspect they are kind of as an adjunct to the fact that they turn into at will powers and can be very handy in that role.
#2 Plaguescarred1 Aug 01, 2014 3:04:38	That seems correct to me. Wizards Spellcasting feature contain guidelines for Learning Spells of 1st Level and Higher which cantrips are not since they are 0th level spells.
#3 RustedKitsune Aug 02, 2014 4:30:06	It is assumed that your cantrips known are pernament - you can't learn new ones or swap ones known for a different one. Personally, I rule that casters who prepare their spells can spend 1 day of downtime to exchange 1 cantrip that they currently know for a different one.
#4 GreyMorgan Aug 02, 2014 10:55:13	Ok, it looks like the consensus is what I thought.  Cantrips by basic rules are something you select once.  That was the way I was reading the rules and as they are effectively at will powers it makes sense to do it that way.  Though I like RustedKitsune's home brew rule on it and might consider some varient on that.
#5 ZaranBlack Aug 04, 2014 6:12:12	GreyMorgan wrote:
#6 Ahglock Aug 06, 2014 10:05:58	ZaranBlack wrote:
#7 E-Tallitnics Aug 06, 2014 22:58:08	ZaranBlack wrote:
#8 TrueManiek Aug 08, 2014 2:34:15	E-Tallitnics wrote:
#9 Grazel Aug 08, 2014 4:25:48	Why would a Wizard devote their time to learning a large amount of cantrips? The point of the cantrips learned was that those were their 101 class then they went on to learning the more complex stuff. To learn more than a handfull of cantrips would  mean more time spent as an apprentice and not learning "real" magic. Also since the limits on spells indicates some sort of "arcane law of conservation" that prohibits a wizard from having more than a very finite number of prepared (memorized) spells it makes sense that applies to cantrips as well.   I could see houseruling it to say the Wizard can record other cantrips in their spellbook as well and swap them out as prepared spells as well but considering how cantrips have already been shown to be handy even at higher levels you have to be careful of the balance by allowing too much to the Wizard. I think they want cantrips to be like a fighter's favored weapons, only a select few rather than a walking arsenal.
#10 Walstafa Aug 08, 2014 7:44:55	It kind of makes sense to me. The effort that it would take a wizard to master even a minor magical effect to the level where they could cast it without a significant expenditure of energy (spell slots) would limit the amount of time spend studying other more potent spells.    I could almost see an argument for a feat which would give a wizard an extra cantrip in return for one of their first-level spell slots, but that'd be hard to balance later on when Cantrips far outstrip the potential of a 1st-level spell.
#11 Ahglock Aug 08, 2014 20:31:19	Walstafa wrote:
#12 E-Tallitnics Aug 08, 2014 21:10:20	Ahglock wrote:
(Reply to #5) Dane_McArdy	ZaranBlack wrote:
#14 Mephi1234 Aug 09, 2014 7:11:52	This is why High Elves make such great wizards.    They get to know more cantrips than anyone else.       One thing that I also like doing is, after reaching Int 20, I start taking Magic Initiate feats to increase my spell selection.   Its amazing what all the catrips you can cast can do when worked together.
#15 Ahglock Aug 09, 2014 16:33:11	E-Tallitnics wrote:
#16 jaelis Aug 09, 2014 17:31:12	Could have a 1st level spell that lets you pick a cantrip from your list and know it for the next 24 hours.
#17 Larry_Hunsaker Aug 09, 2014 22:37:48	I would consider a house rule that lets you spend 1 spell slot (it would be spent like you case a spell, but could not be regained until you give up the Cantrips gained by using it, allowing you to keep it perpetually spent if you always wanted more Cantrips) and gain additional Cantrips you know from your spellbook equal to the level of the spell slot used. So give up a level 3 slot and get 3 more Cantrips until you give up the 3 Cantrips to be able to regain the spent slot as normal.    I might also require Cantrips be found just like other spells, and recorded in your spellbook, with a cost in time and money half that of a level 1 spell. You know the ones you start with in your book for free, and must find others like you would other spells. However, I might say that Cantrips are easy to find and pick up, perhaps like Healing Potions, they can be found in most cities, in this case, in the local Mage Guilds as long as you have good standing.
#18 Dyndrilliac Aug 10, 2014 0:49:00	You can get additional cantrips by multiclassing into other spellcasting classes. This only works well with classes that use the same spellcasting ability. I'm doing Sorcerer/Warlock with a Half-Elf and even though at level 1 I started with 2 cantrips, at level 2 I took a level of Sorcerer for another 4 cantrips.
#19 smacintush Aug 10, 2014 9:36:55	Glad I saw this, as it just came up in my game yesterday.   I'm not much for house rules, I'd rather just have a sensible explanation for RAW or RAI. It makes sense to me that cantrips are not really normal spells per se, but rather innate abilites that a wizard develops as his understanding of magic and his ability to "handle" more powerful magic increases. In this line of thinking it makes perfect sense that they can't just accumulate all the cantrips they want.
#20 jaelis Aug 10, 2014 9:37:59	To me, preparing a spell is like memorizing a poem. Learning a cantrip is like learning to ride a bike.
#21 TempestRime Aug 10, 2014 11:37:23	The idea behind cantrips isn't that they're prepared like other spells, though.  They are the spells your character has memorized so well that he can always remember them without preparation.  It takes a lot more time to memorize another cantrip so completely, and thus requires a feat.   That said, I could totally get behind allowing spellcasters to prepare cantrips as part of their daily spell prep if they scribed a cantrip into their spellbook.  Just spend one of your allotment of prepared spells, and BAM, new cantrip for a day.
#22 mrpopstar Aug 10, 2014 12:13:42	I think that all clerics should have been given Thaumaturgy, all druids should have been given Druidcraft, and all wizards should have been given Prestidigitation for free as part of their spellcasting class feature.   I consider it a tax in the current implementation, and I'll be offering the cantrips for free to characters in my home games.     jaelis wrote:
#23 Ahglock Aug 10, 2014 12:20:56	mrpopstar wrote:
#24 mrpopstar Aug 10, 2014 12:43:27	Ahglock wrote:
(Reply to #21) GreyMorgan	TempestRime wrote:
#26 Walstafa Aug 11, 2014 3:49:04	Ahglock wrote:
#27 MarcCCTx Aug 12, 2014 12:36:01	I'm going to handle like the non-spellbook casters... "When you gain a level in Wizard class, you can choose one of the Wizard cantrips you know and replace it with another cantrip from the Wizard spell list."   That makes it something you can do occasionally, but not just because it would be convenient for the current senario.   Edit: spelling