Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lipfi Aug 31, 2014 9:24:03	IMO level scaling damage of centrips make low level damage spells obsolete at hig chracter levels and this is very big flaw in design.
#2 Plaguescarred1 Aug 31, 2014 9:33:43	Its not a flaw in design but a boon, otherwise you're damage wouldn't keep up. By the time your cantrip scales, you should have spells in your arsenal that can do far more damage or detrimental effects.
#3 Wayside Aug 31, 2014 9:32:34	It is a pretty awkward point. But it is also how the rules work.   Guess higher level casters will only be using their 1st level slots for utility.
(Reply to #2) Lipfi	Plaguescarred wrote:
#5 Plaguescarred1 Aug 31, 2014 9:53:50	For non cantrip spell's damage to scale you need to use a higher level spell slot, this slows the quadratic effect.
(Reply to #4) Ashrym	Lipfi wrote:
(Reply to #6) Lipfi	Ashrym wrote:
#8 DrDragonlance Aug 31, 2014 12:49:02	I house ruled it back in, but made it small. Magic Missile gets a bonus missile at levels 8 and 15. Fireball gets +1 damage per Wizard level. DBF gets +2 damage per Wizard level.
#9 Templar309 Aug 31, 2014 16:46:01	Witch Bolt is pretty great even at 1st level.  Magic Missile doesn't have to be rolled and there is no save.
#10 2Chlorobutanal Aug 31, 2014 17:48:53	At level 20, assuming 80% accuracy because of level, a first-level slot burning hands would average 9.45 damage per target and poison spray 20.8.  If you're hitting two targets, it's pretty much a wash, and any more than two targets (of which burning hands can potentially hit 9), burning hands still does more damage at level 20.   If you're an Evoker or Draconic Sorcerer, a burning hands would average nearly 14 damage per target and fire bolt would average 18.4.  For such a character, any more than 1 target and burning hands still does more damage at level 20.   That being said, it may not be a bad idea for a spellcaster to start using lower-level spell slots for utility or defensive effects as they reach higher levels.  I think this tended to happen quite a bit in previous editions anyway, although the effect is more pronounced now due to scaling cantrip damage spells and non-scaling slotted spells.
#11 BW0222 Aug 31, 2014 22:02:07	Sorry, I don't see this.   Cleric. * Sacred flame does 1d8 damage, half on a reflex save. 60', 2d8 at 5th, 3d8 at 11th, and 4d8 at 17th. * Guiding bolt does 4d6 damage, plus advantage, plus illuminated the creature with an attack role. 120'. Using higher slots it is 5d6 at 3rd, 6d6 at 5th, etc.   Wizard * Ray of frost does 1d8 and reduces speed by 10' requiring an attack roll. 60', 2d8 at 5th, 3d8 at 11th, and 4d8 at 17th. * Magic missile does 3d4+3, no save or roll with the option to divide damage between up to three targets. 120', Using higher level slots it is 4d4+4 at 3rd, 5d4+5 at 5th, etc.   In combat this is typically a massive need and advantage to kill creatures as quickly as possible. If 1st-level party is facing a bugbear (16hp)... the cleric could spend four rounds killing him with some sacred flames, but the bugbear would likely have killed or seriously wounded several PCs during those rounds. The cleric would then have to waste spells healing PCs. Far better to use the guilding bolt and kill the bugbear in the first. Likewise for a wizard -- killing the bugbear with some magic missiles in round one is better than slowly killing him over four rounds a ray of frost.   By higher levels, cantrips are pretty much useless. Creatures you face need to be dropped extremely quickly or else any spell slots saved will be wasted in healing. Obviously there are cases in which opponents can't damage you and it doesn't matter -- you are flying above a group of wolves, you are behind arrow slits, the opponent is in a web spell, etc. At which point, cantrips are just for finishing the creature off and you could have done the same with enough darts, arrows, or sling stones.
#12 FallingIcicle Sep 01, 2014 2:05:34	Cantrips don't end up being better than 1st level spells. They end up being about as good as a 1st level spell at 17th+ level. Even then, the 1st level spells still often have advantages that make them worth using, such as being guaranteed to hit, granting other targets advantage, hitting several creatures, etc. Besides, by 17th+ level, your 1st level slots are usually going to be spent on utility and defensive spells like shield, not on offense.
#13 Jenks Sep 01, 2014 3:12:36	They specifially designed the spellcasting system with the mindset that players will be using their lower level slots mainly, or at least much more often, for utility magic at higher levels.
#14 Kentus Sep 01, 2014 8:49:59	First: I'm personally glad, that only the cantrips gets stronger with levels and even there I wouldn't mind too much, if they stayed at their strength (but considering the damage output of the other classes, it's understandable).   There are still some advantages for slot-spells (even damaging ones): Cantrips are always hit and miss (unless you're a wizard with the evocation tradition), slot-damage at lower levels is mostly half damage Class features depending on spells normally triggers only after using a spell-slot Multi-Targetting Other advantages (like range, always hit, hit turn after turn, etc.)   But to be honest, I wouldn't see the need anyway, to actually prepare low-level damaging spells at some point, not only because of the empowered cantrips, but simply because I got better spells at higher levels in reasonable numbers (like 3rd level spells) and the controlling and buffing spells are still up to date for the most part (like web, bless, etc.).