Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 DungeonKrusher Dec 22, 2014 13:17:27	Yup. Another review of crossbow rules.   I was at a tournament game and a crossbow archer was granted a reaction attack by another character. The archer had already fired on her initiative, so I questioned her ability to fire again due to the loading property. After a quick scan of the rules, the DM allowed it based on the fact that the granted attack was a reaction, and the loading property only affected individual actions, bonus actions, or reactions -- not all three lumped together. In a sense, he was indicating that loading would limit a character to a max of three attacks, if the PC was able to use an attack action, a bonus action, and a reaction.   Although the rules don't specify that loading limits the amount of shots fired in a round, that's how I'd been reading it. I thought the spirit of the rule was "you fire once per round, regardless of attacks or actions." Here's my question: how have your groups been using this rule? Does the loading property limit the shots per round, or per action?   For clarification, here is the rule: Loading. Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.
#2 mellored Dec 22, 2014 13:40:50	IMO:   max 1 for an action.  (multi-attack, volly). max 1 for an bonus action. (swift quiver). max 1 for a reaction. (commander's strike) +max 1 for each extra action (action surge, haste).   = max 5 times in a round.
#3 bonethug0108 Dec 22, 2014 13:43:38	From a straight reading you could read as once between the three or as once per action type. The rule was clearly intended to be the first, but the RAW could read either way.
#4 Coredump00 Dec 22, 2014 14:01:58	It has not come up, but I read it as once per action.
#5 OoftaMeg Dec 22, 2014 14:13:30	I probably would have said once per round too, but the RAW is pretty clear.  Getting a shot as a reaction is allowed.
#6 DungeonKrusher Dec 22, 2014 14:43:07	Yikes, that's overwhelming.   The more I read it, the more it sounds like "Whenever you get an opportunity to attack, you can only fire once." Thanks for the feedback.
#7 mellored Dec 22, 2014 14:55:17	DungeonKrusher wrote:
#8 lawrencehoy Dec 22, 2014 22:30:49	It seems to me that everyone is reading the first half of the rule and ignoring the second:   "..., regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."   This "number of attacks" would include any Bonus Action or Reaction; otherwise, it is unnecessary to include Bonus Actions and Reactions in the rule, since they never include multiple attacks.
(Reply to #8) Macv12	lawrencehoy wrote:
#10 lawrencehoy Dec 23, 2014 3:38:06	Macv12 wrote:
#11 Gold_Katana Dec 23, 2014 5:30:15	"I doubt there will ever be a muti-attack bonus action or reaction; those two types of actions are designed with the intent that they are minimal and won't "bloat" the action economy."   But if there ever are, via splat books or whatever, the way the rule is written will cover that.  No matter what type of action you are using - you only get one shot regardless of how many times you would be allowed to attack with a weapon without Load.
#12 mellored Dec 23, 2014 5:39:38	lawrencehoy wrote:
#13 Illithidbix Dec 23, 2014 5:52:48	I'm also reading it as "per action" rather than "per turn" or "per round". So only really applies to classes with the Extra Attack ability.   mellored wrote:
#14 mellored Dec 23, 2014 6:11:59	Illithidbix wrote:
#15 Coredump00 Dec 23, 2014 7:40:15	Flurry of Blows also allows for 2 attacks for a Bonus action.
#16 LupusRegalis Dec 23, 2014 7:56:18	Ah, so nice to see the 'Simplified' Action economy at work...FML
(Reply to #9) DungeonKrusher	Macv12 wrote:
#18 guachi Dec 23, 2014 9:58:29	I initially thought it was one per round. But I'm now convinced it's one attack per action. When in doubt, err on the side of a ruling that allows a character to do more.
#19 mellored Dec 23, 2014 10:54:34	DungeonKrusher wrote:
(Reply to #12) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
#21 mellored Dec 23, 2014 11:23:02	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #21) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #8) Ganymede425	lawrencehoy wrote:
#24 Macv12 Dec 23, 2014 17:38:26	lawrencehoy wrote:
#25 lawrencehoy Jan 01, 2015 14:32:00	Okay, there are specific class features that allow/grant mutiple attacks with a Bonus Action. Thanks everyone, for pointing those out.   This just makes the interpretation of the rule seem to favor the 1/round limitation; otherwise, those class features aren't as special as they were. Although, I guess it could be argued that they just grant additional ways to get that particular benefit; which, if that is the case, would open the door for many more ways to get that particular benefit. Ways which would just make the benefit less special, and another "must have" choice for character optimization.
#26 Ganymede425 Jan 01, 2015 15:53:24	lawrencehoy wrote:
#27 lawrencehoy Jan 02, 2015 7:28:41	Ganymede425 wrote:
#28 Noctaem Jan 05, 2015 8:01:58	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #28) Coredump00	Noctaem wrote:
#30 Noctaem Jan 05, 2015 10:21:56	Coredump00 wrote:
#31 lawrencehoy Jan 05, 2015 22:04:27	Noctaem wrote:
#32 Macv12 Jan 05, 2015 22:43:17	To be fair, only classes without Extra Attack are likely to consider using crossbows without the feat, and they generally don't have a lot of bonus action or reaction attacks they'd want to make with a crossbow, which is the only area where lawrencehoy's ruling gives them an extra disadvantage. Hand crossbows are a different story, but while I wouldn't agree with the limitations some groups put on it, I see the reason. Starting to wish that stupid thing didn't even exist...
(Reply to #30) Coredump00	Noctaem wrote:
#34 lawrencehoy Jan 06, 2015 0:02:47	Macv12 wrote: