Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 UnknownMourner Sep 04, 2014 0:59:09	The 6th level ability for being a lore college bard is pick any 2 spells from any list.   The bard spell text says every level you can swap a bard spell out.   Are the, let's say fireball and lightning bolt, stuck as fireball and lightning bolt?   Can they be swapped into bard spells but not back out?   Should this type of bard just be allowed to always have +2 from anywhere, as long as it's only 1 swap per level?   THere didn't seem to be a direct statment linking the level 6 ability and the class's main text on spells.   I'm of the mind to cut the guy some slack since its opposite with college of valor was Extra Attack.
#2 JRutterbush Sep 04, 2014 2:33:04	When you swap out your spells, it specifically says that you can swap a spell for a spell on the Bard spell list. You can find that bit in the Spellcasting feature, under "Spells Known Above First Level". So, no, you can't change your non-Bard spells out for non-Bard spells, though it seems you might be able to swap them out for Bard spells if you decide you really don't want them.
(Reply to #2) Ashrym	JRutterbush wrote:
#4 2Chlorobutanal Sep 04, 2014 17:00:38	Technically it seems to be a one-time feature, not a continuing "swappable" characteristic like that of Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights.   However, I wouldn't be opposed to letting a player swap out their Magical Secret spells for a spell of the same level or lower from another class (or the highest level possible or lower granted by that particular Magical Secret - i.e.: no higher than 3rd level spells for the 6th level Lore College additional Magical Secrets).   I'd do this if it were more to correct an error ("I don't like this spell after using it a couple times/I didn't read the whole description at first") than an attempt to "manipulate" the feature to use different spells at different levels ("Shillelagh is optimal until 8th level, then I swap to flaming sphere for more damage"- for example, not a real assertion).
#5 demon_idol Sep 04, 2014 18:59:19	I disagree, I think that you can swap them out for higher level spells of any class, if you want (you can still only replace 1 spell per level). Here is the text from Magical Secrets:   "By 10th evel, you have plundered magical knowledge from a widge spectrum of disiplines. Choose two spells from any class, including this one. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip. *The chosen spells count as bard spells for you* and are included in the number in the Spells Known columns of the Bard table. You learn two additional spells from any calss at 14th level, and again at 18th level."   Since the spells count as bard spells, and are included in the number of spells known, that would imply that 2 of those *spells known* are spells that come from any class and count as bard spells. Therefore, at a limit of 1 per level gained, you can swap them out for other spells that come from any list, but count as bard spells.   This works for all magical secrets gained, include the 2 extra ones that the College of Lore bard gains at 6th level.
#6 Pelinor Sep 04, 2014 19:45:29	As an aside, you can also select a Cantrip with this feature.  For a Lore bard this provides a reliable source of damage since you will otherwise only have 1 attack per round and the bard cantrip list only oen damgage dealing cantrip (viscious mockery) which only deals 1d4.  Granted, it does have the side benefit of the target having Disadvantage on their next attack but when you want damage, this isn't a go to cantrip.  Sacred Flame, Fire Bolt and Eldritch Blast are all good choices for reliable and consistent damage.  Sacred flame is tempting since it is radiant damage and I suspect there will be a number of enemies that will have vulnerability to radiant damage.  Fire Bolt and Eldritch Blast both deal more damage than Sacred Flame and have 120 foot range though compared to 60 foot for Sacred Flame.
(Reply to #5) Ashrym	demon_idol wrote:
#8 lawrencehoy Sep 04, 2014 20:11:26	demon_idol wrote:
(Reply to #8) 2Chlorobutanal	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #8) demon_idol	lawrencehoy wrote:
#11 lawrencehoy Sep 04, 2014 22:44:34	demon_idol wrote:
#12 UnknownMourner Sep 05, 2014 13:02:12	So you pick up two tricks and they stay that way?   They will still be castable with higher slots, so they're still cool.
(Reply to #11) demon_idol	lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #6) 1eejit	Pelinor wrote:
#15 Forgember Sep 06, 2014 10:01:32	If I where DM I would just say you can swap one of them out each time you gain that feature, so if you get two at 6th, you can gain two more at 10th and swap out one of your 6th level ones, at 14 you can swap out one of the spells you got at 6th/10th and get your two 14th level ones and so on.
#16 FaerieGodfather Sep 07, 2014 0:26:35	Considering the hoops I've jumped through in previous editions to get the spells I wanted... the Bard's ability to pick up a handful of spells from other classes is beautiful. The fact that I can't switch these spells out later is pretty much irrelevant given the way spells scale in 5e.