Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mellored Sep 30, 2014 18:03:14	If you are dominating a creature, cast death ward on yourself, then run away and get your host killed what happens?   What if you cast death ward on your body?
#2 crabcrouton Sep 30, 2014 19:30:02	mellored wrote:
#3 mellored Oct 01, 2014 5:14:19	So at best you can get a second chance to save?   And it doesn't work on your host body?
#4 Timborama Oct 01, 2014 5:44:21	Death ward prevents your host's body from dying, if you cast it on "yourself" (read: "your new host body") while body-switched, so if you drop to 0 HP you'd go to 1 (or prevent 1 insta-death effect) and Death Ward spell ends (no need to CHA save, since you didn't actually die).   I say it does not protect your "soul" inside the host, because if you're more than 100 feet away from the jar, you'd die, but be saved by the spell, but then die again anyway because you're more than 100ft away from the jar. So the spell is cast on the body, not the soul possessing it (for simplicity's sake, and for functionality). You raise a good point of this actually working for a "double-save" if you are within 100ft of the jar and fail your CHA save, and perhaps I'd give the caster an option (to cast on his host body or his own soul), but remind them that if they're 101ft away from the jar, even Death Ward won't save them. But within 100ft, if the host body dies, they can CHA save and if they fail, they can CHA save again, if they chose to cast it on their own soul.   If, instead, you cast Deathward on your own body while your soul is in your host, it's just a Deathward on your body. If it drops to 0 HP it would go to 1 (or it would prevent 1 insta-death effect) and Death Ward would end. But that also means that whoever is trying to kill your body could just do it again...   It's a little weird but I think I know what you're getting at. Lemme know if this makes sense or if this just raises more questions o_O It's way too early for this :-p
#5 mellored Oct 01, 2014 5:57:39	Well i'm trying to figure out how it works, then i can figure out how to abuse it.  (though gnome + bard/paladin 6 for extra good Cha saves, and death ward as backup).   So the concensis seems to be that deathward won't get around the 100' limitiation.     What happens if your within 100'?
#6 Timborama Oct 01, 2014 6:37:25	I believe I described what (I believe) happens within 100ft above:   Either your DM says it's cast on your host body and it (the body you are currently possessing) is given a 2nd chance. Or the DM says it's cast on your soul, and when you die you make a CHA save, and if you pass GREAT you're in your Jar, but if you fail you get a 2nd CHA save (and if you fail that you die) to make it to your jar   As a DM I'd either give the PC a choice (when you cast it, is it on your Host Body or Soul?) or say it just works on the host body. Honestly leaning towards the latter in order to prevent weirdness and promote "simplicity"
#7 mellored Oct 01, 2014 7:50:41	Side question.   Do you get death saving throws while in a host?
#8 Timborama Oct 01, 2014 7:54:29	I say yes, because it doesn't say "when your host body is reduced to 0"   It's "when it dies"
#9 Pauper Oct 01, 2014 9:20:35	Be aware that magic jar specifies that your soul returns to the container on a successful Charisma save and dies on a failed save. Just because you negate the effect of a failed save doesn't mean that you get the benefit of a successful save.   -- Pauper
#10 mellored Oct 01, 2014 10:02:27	Can you see a soul? While it's projecting?  (i.e. would anybody notice?)   What if you used sublte meta-magic?
(Reply to #10) Timborama	mellored wrote:
#12 mellored Oct 01, 2014 10:47:10	What happens when you make a second or third magic jar?
#13 JohnnyBlaise Oct 01, 2014 11:00:26	Im pretty sure True Seeing allows you to see disembodied souls.  Souls exist on the Ethereal Plane, which you can see into while under the affect of True Seeing.  Otherwise, no.
#14 Timborama Oct 01, 2014 11:18:39	I know you might be thinking it makes a "chain" but what I believe happens is:   Your current host body becomes your new "body" for the spell's purposes, and falls catatonic. Your soul enters the new jar and you can possess another body. This NEW host follows the same rules, except when you die, every form of "your body" refers to the host body from Magic Jar casting #1. However, if you die you go back the Jar from casting #2 (following the same rules as the spell), not the Jar from #1. In the jar, though, you can either repossess the body from Magic Jar #1 OR your original body as long as they're within 100ft.   To simplify:   Human casts magic Jar #1 on a Jar. Human soul is in Jar, Human Body catatonic Human Soul Possesses Bugbear Bugbear soul in Jar, Human in Bugbear body. Human in Bugbear Body casts Magic Jar #2 on a Gem Human Soul is in Gem, Bugbear Body catatonic (bugbear soul is STILL in Jar, and cannot possess anything, and Human Body still comatose as per spell) Human Soul Possesses Orc Orc Soul now in Gem, Human Soul now in Orc Body   Orc Body dies within 100ft of Gem: Human soul tries to return to Gem If successful, Human Soul now in gem, Orc Body and Orc Soul are dead. Human can now possess whatever (including catatonic Bugbear body or Human Body), Bugbear Soul still in Jar     This, however, is the tricky part: If, after Magic Jar #2 (on gem) has been cast and Human Soul is in Orc Body, and the Jar (with Bugbear Soul) is destroyed within 100ft of Bugbear Body, I BELIEVE Bugbear soul returns to Bugbear Body, but nothing happens to Human Soul or Human Body, since a Soul is not being "shunted" anywhere. (I personally like this interpretation, but consider the following) If, however, we're going by a literal interpretation, your Soul is shunted from the Orc Body when the Jar is destroyed, and you must return to your Human Body if it's within 100ft of the Orc Body, otherwise Human Soul dies. Orc Body is now, most likely, catatonic, and Orc Soul is still in Gem   (edit: I realize I just wrote a butt-tonne of info after saying "to simplify." Whoops! Oh well...)
#15 mellored Oct 01, 2014 12:13:11	Can you cast bonus action spells while in the jar?   What about sublte spells (so no M, V, or S)?
#16 Pauper Oct 01, 2014 12:45:52	"[A]nything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action." (PH, p.189)   "The only action you can take is to project your soul up to 100 feet out of the container..." (PH, p.257)   Magic jar deprives you of your ability to take actions, save for the single action allowed in the spell description. I'd say it prevents bonus action (or any action) spellcasting.
#17 Timborama Oct 01, 2014 12:54:24	You cannot move, talk, or whatever while a brain in a jar. Your only discourse is observing, and transferring your soul to something else. The latter is only possible if you were the caster. A trapped soul cannot do anything but observe (though they retain any senses they have, including Darkvision, blindsense, etc).
#18 mellored Oct 01, 2014 14:55:07	What about wizards divination? Or rangers hord breaker (assuming you attacked and killed yourself within 5' of the jar)?
(Reply to #18) Timborama	mellored wrote:
#20 mellored Oct 02, 2014 6:13:25	Timborama wrote:
#21 mellored Oct 02, 2014 6:22:55	Can a simulacrum cast magic jar?   And if it dominated someone, would you still need to pay to regain it's HP?
#22 Timborama Oct 02, 2014 6:46:56	Simulacrum would probably work. It just follows the same limitations of both spells (1/2 HP, no regaining spells, etc. etc.). So feasibly you could create a host or pickle jar folk (but it'll get mighty expensive!). But if you're going to do that, you might as well do it right. Observe: http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4140781   As for Hordebreaker, again, no, because a Jar has a reach of 0. And a STR score of 0. And you're a SOUL in the Jar, anyway, so you DEFINITELY have 0 reach. And no attacks. Because you're a soul in a jar.   As for Portent (thanks for actually clearing up what you wanted to use), I think that's fine if used in conjunction with another ability that doesn't use an action (like, most likely why you want this, the save to not die. That's fine).   As for concentration? I'd potentially allow it, but only if you willingly left your host body as an action to go into the jar. I would not allow you to have your host body DIE and you fall back into the jar and continue concentrating. That seems counter-intuitive (and there may even be a rule against this that I'm too lazy to find). But since it's not an action to continue concentration (well, some are. Most aren't), I'd allow it as long as you don't get system-shocked out of your body
#23 mellored Oct 02, 2014 6:55:50	Timborama wrote:
#24 Timborama Oct 02, 2014 7:55:50	My guess is next to the Host Body, since that's where your Soul is currently at the moment of the save, and I believe it's the Soul part that's making the save (since that's where your "essence" is). It's not your body, since it's basically it's own object at that point (albeit magically preserved to a point, since I'd probably rule it doesn't need food, water, or bathroom breaks). And it's certainly not your Jar, since the save is to go INTO your Jar in the first place! So that's why I think it's the host body