This question came up yesterday while playing.
Half-Orc Barbarian is at 1 hp. Wizard targets him with 5 magic missiles (spell cast at 3rd level). The spell says that all missiles hit simultaneously (i think, though I don't have my phb in front of me). However we were concerned over it being multiple attacks (on account that you could target multiple opponents). The half orc racial ability to absorb damage and remain at 1 hp kicks in. But is that triggered by only 1 MM or all 5? If it is only 1, would then each subsequent MM cause a death saving throw failure?
Quad_Hund wrote:
Similar issue came up in my circle. The rogue wanted to Uncanny Dodge the missile. Does he half the damage of just 1 missile, or all the missiles that hit him? I ruled the former.
It never came up in the game I DM'd, but a similar thing happened in a game I played - and that DM knows the rules WAY better than me. Here's what he said:
All the damage dice are rolled at one time and the targets have to be chosen before rolling. All the missiles hit at one time and become a single source of damage against that target.
At the time, we were trying to kill zombies which make a saving throw to survive being hit and the DC is determined by the damage total. He let us add all the missiles together into a single hit to make the DC harder.
AndyDay wrote:
I think one of the designers has even stated that the School of Evocation's Empowered Evocation only adds your int modifier to the damage taken by each target, not per dart of magic missile. I suspect it was Mike though so it might not be official. If it is official though, then regardless of the number of missiles you produce, it's considered as one damage roll for each target hit.
Bloodscythe wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
Because magic missile specify that all missile hit SIMULTANEOUSLY it's considered 1 damage source. so only 1 death save even if multiple hit hit, the wizard evocation bonus apply once per target, and all target need to be identified BEFORE the damage is rolled.
But do not get confuse with Eldritch blast and Scorching ray which give you multiple attack where each attack (those are attack since they have an attack roll) receive it's own bonus (so the wizard and /or sorcerer bonus get added on each scorching ray even if they all hit the same target, same goes with Agonizing blast for the warlock) and each attack can be determine after the previous one damage got rolled. So with a scorching ray level 2 (3 rays) you can send the first ray on target A, if the target is still alive send the second ray on target A, then if Target A die you can choose to send the 3rd attack on target B. Each attack count as a separate attack for death saves. Each attack are considered separatly, so for your half orc example, if the first ray bring him down, he well be borught down a second time with the second ray then receive a death save from teh 3rd save.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
ArialBlack wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
ArialBlack wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
SterlingRat wrote:
They really need to check on that because we recently had another thread where this was discussed in the AL forum where basically you could have a couple of invokers just upscale Magic missile and massacre Tiamat or other gods very very easily if it's 1d4+1+INT+other mods for EACH missile of the spell. We tweeted and I think the response was not given. It just seems completely nuts that the most basic spell can kill gods in 3 casts when up-casted. So 3 invokers can kill Tiamat in less than 6 seconds?
I really want a clear and definitive answer. The one from Jeremy here isn't a clear yes or no. He's actually vague about it, even to a direct question, and that bugs me.
Bloodscythe wrote:
I read Eldritch Blast as creating the beams at the same time, not in sequence. To me saying "the spell creates two beams" indicates they are created at the same time. Whereas something like "You can make a second attack", or even "The spell creates a second beam at 5th level", would indicate they are in sequence. I can't prove it in a court of law.... but it sure seems that way to me.
As for he MM and JC tweets.... to me his answer was a bit disjointed. The 'yes' was pretty direct, but then the 'like a fireball' seems to indicate something completely different.... I would like a more clear answer also.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
SterlingRat wrote:
The balance to magic missile being "auto-damage" is that the damage is all one source. That is what MM was originally trying to say with his ruling on it.
Allowing a Wizard to just do 42 damage plus some piddly dice rolls without requiring a save or an attack is obscene. Even at level 20, that's bad. And the example with being able to use this exploit to kill Tiamat is proof positive that it is not correct.
If a DM were to do that trick to your party (a few high level Evocation wizards spamming magic missile on your party tank or Cleric), would you still say it's a good way for the spell to work?
Hope you guys keep Shield and Counterspell prepared.
Ilse wrote:
And "one damage roll"is ONE damage roll, for the spell. The wording is clear, it never says "each target" or "each dice" or anything of the kind. And empowered evocation only speaks about a spell as a whole. Not about individual components.
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Ilse wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
Here's my take on Magic Missile and on how Empowered Evocation interacts with Magic Missile; feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore at your leisure.
First:
Empowered Evocation - Basic Rules V0.2 pg 31, Player's Handbook pg 117 wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Grazel wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
House rule it until a more clarifying answer is given from WoTC. Entire second page of this thread is 2 people "trying like heck" to make the other person see their view point. I must admit, when threads like this go on, it drains the fun out of the game and this forum. Granted I could just leave but the first few posts were informative seeing both sides of the fence and before you know it I was sucked into the black hole of this discussion before I could click away 
Orethalion wrote:
EthanSental wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Ilse wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
It's been stated that command could be an instantaneous spells instead of a 1 round duration, and it would work the same.
But this is not the case. Command must have a non-instant duration, because if it was instantaneous then the magic would come and go before the target's turn.
Spells 'begin' the moment they are cast, unless there is another mechanic that trumps that (such as a Readied Action). You cannot cast a spell and have the spell not exist until later unless you have a mechanic like Ready.
ArialBlack wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
ArialBlack wrote:
Just a point about the tiamat thing: I think tiamat has a blanket magic immunity, but the problem here is that magic missile doesn't have a roll to attack. Which is why it only takes ~100 level 1 wizards to kill the tarrasque in 6 seconds. I mean sure, 5 of them die from reflected missiles, but it's much better than just about any alternative.
Which is also the answer to "isn't it unfair if your DM targets you with magic missile?". The answer is probably yes. It really has nothing to do with how many times you get a charisma bonus added to the damage, but simply that it's a significant amount of automatic damage to start with.
ArialBlack wrote:
Yeah. If there was an official answer I guess we'd have found it by now.
I suppose that this is where the 'rulings not rules' thing comes in. I posted how I would rule it, but if I was playing under a DM who used the other method, I would think it was fair. Either way, best let your players know how you're ruling it before it comes up rather than after....!
ArialBlack wrote:
[quote="Ilse"]The texts that you consistently misquote are:
"you can add your Intelligence modifier to the damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast"
It's one damage roll, just like fireball, but that roll can damage the same target more than once
All these texts (including JC's) use the singular, not the plural. One spell = one damage roll. The fact that you can allocate part of this one roll to various targets (magic missile, scorching ray, etc.), or only to one target, or actually to multiple targets at once does not change the fact that it's still one roll for one spell, and I would apply Empowered Evocation only once, to this roll.
See also: "I think that's a DM call, but the sage advice on MM implies that it's actually one damage roll, just split among up to 5 potential targets."
Win by errata: Empowered Evocation (p. 117). The damage bonus applies to one damage roll of a spell, not multiple rolls.
I'm still a bit confused with this errata. Can you tell me how EE works with a few spells like Acid splash, Magic missile, scoching ray, Storm sphere ?
Acid splash is conjuration, EE doesn't apply at all.
Magic missile: you make several missiles, depending on the level it is cast at. You add your Int mod to the damage of one of the missiles.
Scorching ray: like magic missile, you add your Int mod to the damage of just one of the rays.
Storm sphere: Here again there are several damage rolls, you pick one to add your Int mod too. It could be the first roll, for the 2d6 bludgeoning damage in an area. That might affect several creatures. Or it could be one of the later rolls from a lightning bolt.
I would play you can wait to decide to apply the extra damage until after you see if an attack (like from scorching ray) hit. Not so sure if I would let you wait and see how many creatures saved before deciding whether to apply it to the initial damage of storm sphere. Probably I would let you wait.