Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 GentlemanLoser Sep 27, 2014 15:56:54	You are a Level 5 Eldritch Knight (4 Spells Known, 3 * 1st level slots).  And a level 3 Arcane Trickster (3 Spells Known, 2 * 1st level slots).   As a Multi-classed caster, you count as a caster of (5+3)/3 rounded down to 2.   This gives you only 3 * 1st level slots to cast both your 4 known EK spells and you 3 known AT spells.   Next level, you take a level of EK.  Bringing you a Multi Classed Caster of level 3.  Which now gives you 4 * 1st level slots and 2 * 2nd level sots.   As a 6th level EK your spells known remains at 4.   But.   As you have gained a level of EK, you're able to swap out a known spell;   Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the w izard spells you know with another spell of your choice from the wizard spell list.
#2 Yunru Sep 27, 2014 16:04:52	Yes, it directly violates the rules for MC Spellcasters (except Warlocks).   Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
#3 GentlemanLoser Sep 27, 2014 16:03:43	How does it violate the rule?  That would be helpful.
#4 Yunru Sep 27, 2014 16:06:55	Really? Your fingers too tired to type? You know where it is (Multiclassing section) and you know the keywords to search for (spellcasting). Heck, you could've answered this one by yourself with some basic research. Regardless, I've already edited in the appropriate section.
#5 GentlemanLoser Sep 27, 2014 16:14:22	Yes, that section still applies.   Take the full caster 6 / Figther 3.   At EK1 you know three first level spells.   Then, when going to EK2, you look at that class on it's own to see how many spells you know.   (Which remains 3) Edit: Actually it goes to 4.  /meh not relevant.  Imagine I'm talking about EK 2 and 3.   That doesn't change.   What's in discussion here is the ability to swap out a known spell for another.
#6 Yunru Sep 27, 2014 16:17:59	Read it again. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
#7 GentlemanLoser Sep 27, 2014 16:20:01	Full caster 6, Fighter 3+.   Sorry, maybe I confused things by calling them EK1 etc.   Look at a charcate that is say Wizard 6 / Fighter (EK) 4.   The EK knows 4 first level spells.  When they go to Fighter (EK) 5, they *still* know 4 spells (And don't prepare any so that section is moot).   But now, the EK is allowed to swap out a known spell.  The MC rules *do not* cover this.
#8 Yunru Sep 27, 2014 16:22:46	It doesn't matter that they don't prepare spells. The section quoted covers spells you can prepare AND KNOW. NOT number of spells, EVERYTHING. NUMBERS, LEVELS, THE LOT. Thus, when you work out what spells you can know (and yes, this DOES include retraining spells), you count as ONLY a EK#.
#9 GentlemanLoser Sep 27, 2014 16:33:23	Yup, reread the Ranger/Wizard example and you're totally correct.   Otherwise, in the book example, if the Ranger levels were first, the Wizard would have been able to pick up second level spells at second level Wizard.
(Reply to #4) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
#11 RCanine Sep 27, 2014 20:44:42	GentlemanLoser wrote:
#12 FrogReaver Sep 28, 2014 19:01:51	I can see his argument.  A multicast ek can prepare spells as I he were a single class ek of tht level.  The tricky part is that a single class ek gets to retrain spells based on spell slots and since all his spell slots are both ek and whatever other caster he multiclassed into then it appears he would have spell slots that meet the ek requirement for retraining.   of course I can see a viable interpretation for basing ek retraining off the equivalent ek spell level as well...   i don't think either answer is wrong raw.
#13 2Chlorobutanal Sep 28, 2014 19:06:18	The rules for swapping spells implicitly apply only to EK spells (or explicitly, if you are considering the multiclassing rules).  When you gain an EK level, you can only manipulate the features of the EK class. Additionally, your EK spell slots (as shown on the EK table for your new level) are the only spell slots that "count" during any learning or swapping of spells for the EK class.
#14 bid Sep 28, 2014 21:52:39	Lets assume you are a 12th-level Wizard. Since your highest spell slot is 6th level, your spellbook cannot contain wizard spells of 7th-level or higher.   Lets assume you are an 8th-levelCleric. Since your highest spell slot is 4th level. You cannot prepare cleric spells of 5th-level or higher. Now take a MC Wizard-12 / Cleric-8, you have the same restrictions. Sure you will have a 9th-level SLOT, but you won't know any 9th-level spell.   Or do you believe a MC Cleric-19 / Wizard-1 should have access to wish?