Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 akaramis Nov 12, 2014 23:51:42	I found 4 items in the equipment packs that have no listed costs/weights in the equipment chapter (I checked both P.Basic v0.2 and the PHB)...   Bricks of incense Censer (for incense) Vestments Alms Box   Also, what would the price be for a blank book, rather than one already filled?
#2 Novacat Nov 12, 2014 23:56:41	I don't see any of those items in the equipment section at all. I assume they're included with background packages?   None of those items have any resale value, and they're all of a negligible weight (vestments might weigh a couple pounds, but it's clothes so it doesn't count).
(Reply to #2) akaramis	Novacat wrote:
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 13, 2014 3:35:46	Here's some weights from a little googling, because I have time and felt like being helpful: Brick of incense: If the size of a brick is the same in D&D as it is in the real world, then 40 bricks is about 2.5 ounces, so it would take 256 bricks to equal a single pound -  so they are in the category of item that is not worth tracking the weight of. Censer: A 6" hanging censer made of brass that I looked up on Amazon weighs 10.4 ounces, so rounding up to 1 pound should work. Vestments: Should only weigh 1 pound, since that is the weight of a mid-thigh length sleeveless vest, which is pretty close to what a vestment is. Alms box: without a size of the box being mentioned, it's hard to gauge with any accuracy... a 9" x 6" wooden box with hand-carved designs on it seems to weigh about 1.4 pounds, so either 1 or 2 pounds is probably the righ weight for an alms box meant for traveling with (rather than sitting at a temple for collections). Cost of blank book: 25 gp is the cost of a book whether it is filled with lore or not according to the description of the "book" entry in the equipment chapter, since it says it "might contain," certain topics. All that said, I think using the Strength x 15 pounds undhindered carrying capacity rule as an excuse not to even bother tracking the weight of anything because it is so unlikely that a PC will go over is an approach that is much less of an uneccessary hassle.
#5 lawrencehoy Nov 14, 2014 0:10:56	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#6 akaramis Nov 16, 2014 1:57:07	Aaron - I've had several players carrying more than 15x Str while running Encounters...    And your guesses at vestments are REALLY bad, unless you're talking just a cassock and surplice or equivalent. A geneva gown runs a pound... but that's really not "vestments" and no vestments I've ever seen compare to a worn vest...   My dad's diaconal dalmatics average greater than 2# each, mostly 3-5 pounds per set (dalmatic and stole), and those are unlined; the stoles run about a pound each. Your research is appreciated but so alien to my own extensive experience (being a clergyman's son and having been the head altar server and assistant sacristan at a Catholic Cathedral) as to be no real help. The old fiddleback chasuble that Friar John used a lot was over 15 lbs, due to being heavy velvet, satin lined, with extensive silver embroidery. The chasuble was, where not embroidered, over 1/4" (6mm) thick; the siverwork was in places equally thick. You're SWAGing, and that's really no help.   Father Leo's apparently favorite chasuble and stole are maybe 3 pounds; it's 4 yards of 60" wide, plus the 2m stole, with 5m of  jacquard weave 3" wide silk embroidery. And it's made from a cotton/poly blend that's just below trigger weight.    For comparison... standard modern vestments in the Roman Catholic use run 2-5 pounds; fancy embroidered ones can treble that. An alb (0.5-1.5 pounds), cincture (0.1 to 1 pound), a stole 0.5-2 pounds , a maniple 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the stole; a deacon's dalmatic is 1-4 pounds, a chasuble runs 1.5-5 pounds... a bishop's miter 0.5 to 2 pounds. Older, Fiddleback style can more than treble those weights.    Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Catholic vestments run 4-10 pounds... priests have heavy silk phelonian (cloak) worn over cotton or linnen robes, with matching belts, cuffs, and stoles of the same materials, all lined, while deacons have a heavy silk robe and stole, lined. Both wear these over a cassock of linnen or cotton. The cassock is usually 1-2 pounds, the dalmatic (robe) 3-7 pounds, the belt and cuffs 1-2 pounds together, the stoles 2-5 pounds, the Phelonion 3 pounds (unlined poly-cotton) to 5 pounds (satin and velvet). A dalmatic or phelonion has large embroidery on the back, and may have up to 30' of trim. The stole for the deacon is 4-6 yards long, 4-6" wide, and has 8-12 yards of trim, plus some embroidery... And this is all fairly sedate, daily use vestments. A bishop essentially has both sets... plus a 2-5 pound crown.   The fanciest sets of vestments can add 1-5 pounds of gold or silver trim, double the base weights of the fabrics, and add accessories for honor-titles and offices that add several pounds each.    The lightest vestments are a cassock and surplice, running 1-2 pounds per set... but those are not properly vestments, either.   Lutherans, for the most part, vest in just an alb and stole, save at the holidays, and tend to use lighter weight stoles; on holydays and feasts, they add a light chasuble.    High Church anglicans are nearly identical to Roman Catholic for vestment purposes, while low church tend to use the geneva gown or cassock, surplice and stole.    I've a lot of experience in maintaining vestments, and some in making them. (Dad and I made almost all of his. We've made vestments for other Catholic deacons as well. It's easy sewing, but the fabrics are NOT light, and the trim adds a lot.)    I mean, I can guestimate that the begging bowl or alms box is about the same as a scroll case. Censors aren't light, either; a 6" is pretty small. (Really large ones run to several hundred pounds, and are ceiling mounted.) The several I've worked with run 8" to 15" tall, 6" to 8" diameter, and are on 4' of chain, often triple chains.   I really want a design team/official answer, because their assumptions are far more important that the incredible range of Catholic or Orthodox vesments. And the prices are far more important than the weights, but the weights do matter, because, for the most part, vestments shouldn't be worn all the time. And incense should definitely be on the price list, since it's a common spell component, and several spells specify more than 1gp worth. It makes a difference if that's an ounce, a pound, or 10pounds, if only for hiding it; most incense is about the same density as water, so each pound is about a pint. (Oh, and modern church incense is usually sold in 1/4, 1, and 4-5 pound bags or cans, powdered.)
(Reply to #6) AaronOfBarbaria	akaramis wrote:
#8 Grazel Nov 16, 2014 11:17:19	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#9 Mad_Jack Nov 16, 2014 13:05:39	akaramis wrote:
#10 DungeonKrusher Nov 17, 2014 15:45:00	"To be honest, anything that you get as part of a mechanical background that doesn't already have rules associated with it should probably be considered easily replacible at negligible cost or at least able to be traded for with other minor goods or services."   Back in the olden days, our house rules were that spellbooks -- even though they were huge tomes, depending on your perception -- didn't count against encumberance. In fact, we hardly dealt with encumberance at all until we realized there was a guy who said he was carrying multiple swords, a backup bow, and a bandolier of twelves daggers across his chest. Ha!
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