Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 p3ck Mar 25, 2015 6:37:08	I touched on the subject of 9th level unarmoured monk movement but I think the interpretations given were incorrect regarding how far you could move without falling. Anyway so it reads:   "At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move."   So some basics around the flow of time in DnD as I understand it. The turns, saves, AC, HP stats are all abstractions to allow us to quantify the elements/scenarios in the DnD world.   So of particular interest to this monk ability is a turn "abstraction". When a battle ensues all kinds of stuff is going on simultaneously, Two guys are hacking and slashing , another is firing arrows at the first guy, another is running into the fray to help the second guy etc etc. the abstraction of course is that it is all neatly broken down into turns, actions, bonus actions, initiative orders and so on so we can bring order to the chaos.   Having said the above, it will be clear that IN GAME when your turn ends you do not actually stop what you're doing and watch every other character take discreet actions until your turn comes around again. Everything that is happening is one fluid continous sequence.   So where does monk vertical and liquid surface movement come into this? Well it has been suggested that when a monk decides to, say, run on water on his turn, and ONLY run,  he needs to make it to land by the end of his turn or else sink. The end of a turn does not literally mean stopping dead in your tracks and watching others take their turns. It just means that during that six seconds or so you RAN. If i then say i spend the next round runninng (dashing) again I will now have spent approx 12 seconds continous running and so on and so on. I shoud in theory be able to walk/dash around as freeiy up a wall or on water as I could on regular terrain AS LONG AS I DONT STOP AND DO SOMTHING ELSE. ie if im in the middle of a river and stop to light up a cigarette then i've stopped moving and I swim with the fishes   TL;DR Why can't a monk just keep running up a wall of over a river until he gets where he needs to go? Where did this notion of finding "safe ground" before the end of your turn come from?
#2 Coredump00 Mar 25, 2015 7:32:05	Guessing at designers reasoning:  I think it was a handy balance tool.  Instead of giving a hard limit like "50 feet", they use a turn.  Some rules do assume you 'stop' between turns... like Jumping.  Otherwise a Monk could jog a few miles across water, or run up an entire shear cliff face.
#3 Macv12 Mar 25, 2015 9:02:51	Same. They can only defy gravity in short bursts, due to ki magnetism or whatever it is. I'm not interested in a monk going for a casual job up, down, and back up the Empire State Building. Or more to the point, running around in circles on the ceiling and throwing daggers down, without ever stopping, for an entire combat. Not the flavor I think they were going for.
#4 Illithidbix Mar 25, 2015 10:58:18	Because this is how it works in kung-fu movies!
#5 Nevvur Mar 25, 2015 12:17:19	The ability favors simplicity over realism. If I were of a mind to houserule it and bother tracking the fiddly bits, I would link the maximum distance covered to the character's Speed, and require a running start of 10 feet of normal movement to activate. In this way, the monk (with 45 speed) could move 3 spaces, wall walk 6 spaces and remain on the wall.  On his next turn, he could wall walk another three spaces, then be forced to the ground. Then he could move normally another 10 feet, and get back on the wall for four more spaces.
#6 p3ck Mar 25, 2015 14:44:46	What SPECIFICALLY makes people think the effects end? Is it the " on your turn" bit? Does that mean out of combat  where turns don't exist the monk cannot do it at all? Or does a house rule have to be created to breakdown out of combat situations into turns? Even if that's the case, it's always "my turn". That's because we acknowledge that time is continuous. Saying that the monk throws daggers is trolling. All the monk ever does is MOVE which is all that the ability states is required for the effect to work
#7 Byakugan01 Mar 25, 2015 17:42:50	On your turn is precisely that.  After its not your turn anymore you look down like Wil-E-Cayote.    Your logic would seem to imply that if someone moved you over a cliff then you wouldn't fall till it was your turn, then you wouldnt fall because then you would move....   the ceiling example is good too.
#8 p3ck Mar 25, 2015 23:49:49	No by my logic, if pushed off a cliff successfully, I would fall immediately. This is why I take damage immediately. If on a sufficiently high cliff I may even spend my next turn falling. On my turn I would be in state of falling. You can't initiate a move while in a state of falling until, errm, I've stopped falling.    The ability does not say the "effect ends when ... " it says I can't fall during my turn while moving.    Again it has to be emphasised that the end of your turn does not mean you stop what you're doing and watch everyone else take their turn. Turns are just abstractions to let us players in the real world make order out of simultaneous events. Eg two people may stab each other at the same time but we need an abstract way to resolve the overlap. So on my turn I'm running on a wall. Time continues uninterrupted and when my next turn comes I am STILL MOVING ON WALL. There is no gap between my turns where I suddenly stop moving
(Reply to #8) Macv12	p3ck wrote:
(Reply to #9) p3ck	Macv12 wrote:
#11 jaelis Mar 26, 2015 5:01:14	p3ck, you are right that the turn system is an abstraction, but it is one that the game uses. Here is a case where the rules are specifically using the turn system, where you must imagine that the action is taking place sequentially. It's not really fair to try and interpret it outside the turn system, even if that is a good picture of what the abstraction is supposed to represent.   There are all kinds of places where the rules refer to things happening on your turn... extra attacks, combat moves like grapple and shove, spells like blink, etc. Those rules really only make sense if apply them in a turn-based system. The monk ability is like that.   Out of combat, I would just say the monk can move a distance of twice his speed before he needs to return to solid footing.
(Reply to #11) p3ck	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #12) Bloodscythe	p3ck wrote:
(Reply to #12) Cooperjera	p3ck wrote: