Hey there.
I'm running a game with 2 monks + other heroes, at level 10.
Each monk has 10 ki points, and can do 3 attacks per round so they basically can keep any "powerful" monster stunned for the whole fight.
they can try the stun 3 times on each of their turns, or 5 times if they use flurry of blows, so is basically 3-5 saving throws per monk turn.
seems a bit broken, any errata i haven't readed?
Well they can't keep that rate up for too long, but its still pretty good. Probably lets them walk over solo opponents, but those tend to be a bit hard to balance in any case.
Also, you don't have to let them rest after every fight.
Yeah if they are walking all over solos then you just have to make the solos duos to challenge them. Lot harder to stunlock 2 guys than 1.
My party is going through this...they entangle everything and hard encounters turn easy just like that.
turri wrote:
turri wrote:
turri wrote:
Wahoo.....a monks don't suck thread.........they must be so jealous over at the Paizo forums!!
Design better boss fights. Including additional monsters, hazards, and traps in the fight or alternative objectives is a simple way of making the scene more dynamic and challenging than just beating the snot out of a single monster. Here is an (admittedly silly) example.
Also, are your players actually having fun beating up on a creature that can't fight back a good deal of the time? Is trivializing the presumably climactic battle of the adventure or story arc exciting and memorable? If the monk's player can't answer "Yes" to both of the questions I asked, then he or she should consider doing something else. You see, it's not enough to choose the most optimal tactic in a battle - that tactic must also lead to a good time for everyone and the creation of an exciting, memorable story. This is the only way to "win" at D&D according to the Basic Rules.
Add a paladin to the mix. Watch the crit-smites fly. Monsters die in less than 3 rounds, even 4 levels higher than the party.
We have 3 Paladins, 1 monk, 1 cleric. Sometimes we have a fighter/barbarian.
It's just stupid amounts of damage in the melee. Nothing can stay out of melee long enough to deal any real damage because of the monk and barbarian.
So, I had to start inventing "fail safes" to kill the monsters. Borrowing from the TV series, Supernatural, for example ghosts might whisk out at 0 hp, but they come back 1 round later unless they burn the token keeping them in the location.
Saddest moment? Cleric cast Banishment at my Ultraloth. 
End of fight, one round. Boom. Next time I had an outsider? I had him "chained" to a magic circle as a task master. So the banishment just made him "transparent and incapable of fighting" until he passed the save to return to the plane.
Cheating? Yeah, but it made for great story while they mopped up the necromancers. 
stun does not provide auto-crit. just advantage.
paralyze is auto-crit.
TheNovaLord wrote:
I would also like to point out that you are allowed a Constitution save to counter the Stunning Strike. If you pass, you ignore the stun. So some BBEG's should be able to counter this easier than others. But do note that there is a save, and the Ki is spent even if you pass.
What you all are forgetting is that it wont take 4 tries to stun the creature. Once the DC hits 15+, your monster is in serious trouble. Once the creature fails, the monk wont keep spending Ki to keep it stunned. So yeah, it's pretty easy to stun lock almost every major monster through the entire day given that the mechanic recharges on a short rest.
Some possible solutions to this include mind control spells (Not proficient in Wisdom saves). Diamond Soul makes this less effective at higher levels of course. Ultimately the greatest weakness of Monks is the almost complete lack of a ranged option. Additionally, they are not likely to be proficient in Investigation checks, so Illusions will be particularly powerful against Monks.
RulesJD wrote:
Make a boss with immunity to stun or at least gains advantage to saves versus stuns with maybe a bonus of some sort thrown in.
Players will min/max to a degree with the rules. As the DM it is your job to realize what the players are min/maxing for and occasionally give them encounters that challange them based off their min/max still. Sure let them have a cake walk battle or two, and then throw in a curve ball and see how they respond.
Also not, that this stun ability bypasses Magical Resistence that monsters get. So they don't get advantage on the save. That is largely what makes it a HUGE BBEG killer later in the game.
"Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse - specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies' physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents." (PHB pg 76, "The Magic of Ki.")
"Magic Resistance. [Monster] has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects." (Monster Manual, pg. varies)
I think it's reasonable for a DM to rule that monsters with Magic Resistance have advantage on saving throws against Stunning Strike.
RulesJD wrote:
Make the BBEG the last guy in a long gauntlet of enemies, not just a Random Encounter in an empty field. The monks should have spent some ki already because BBEG's lieutenants needed to be brought down hard.
Also don't give them a break (read: replace all Ki) on the way to meet BBEG. He should have patrols and such looking out for intruders into The Base.
limit the use of the stun to one attempt per round. Or make the monster immune to being stunned for a round after a successful save.
UngeheuerLich wrote:
It depends a lot on your BBEG.. Ganging up on lesser solo's, yes the monk stun-lock owns. I have a monk in my own campaign and was someone taken aback at first at how effective he was. Got over it though. Against lesser creatures it is very effective. Put him up against a BBEG like a dragon.. Not so much.. stun is prety useles. High Con saves AND they get Legendary Resistance (auto save) on the off chance he fails a save. Let him have his fun against the minions. Against a worthy Solo BBEG.. he is cinders..
Also, if you have a BBEG that needs a buff, just apply the templating from the DMG.. No one want the Lord of all Evils at the Grand Finale to just stand there wheezing while he gets pounded into oblivion.. A little creative addition to his stat block will fix that
It seems like your experience here differs wildly from mine. In our group our monk did not use his stun succesfully even one time in the whole Tyranny of Dragons campaign. Most enemies that would've been worth it (bosses) either had legendary resistance or high con saves. Or both. Mostly both. I came to the conclusion that the monk stun is only good on paper.
Proletheus wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
Proletheus wrote:
Proletheus wrote:
Just like alot of other people mentioned, it all depends on the types of challenges you're throwing at the PCs. I played monk of the Shadow school recently, and rarely used my stunning attack because my GM was constantly throwing out challenges that made me use my ki in other ways, taking advantage of my other Monk abilities like Pass Without Teace and Silence. When it came fight time, I often only had enough ki for one or two stunning strikes, and even then, I had to decide if they would be the most appropriate use of my ki, knowing there would be more threats right around the corner.
brettlangbdl wrote:
vamp70 wrote:
turri wrote:
vamp70 wrote: