Hey all,
Always loved the monk because of it's quirkiness but quirks can lead to potentially weird scenarios...
1) Open hand technique effects
a) Can the "knock prone" and "push back" effects be applied to creatures of any size?
e.g. let's say said monk is toe to toe with, I dunno, an ancient dragon (gargantuan). Can the monk knock the dragon on it's arse (prone) with relative ease due its feeble dex?
b) Can each strike of the flurry trigger an effect?
e.g. Monk flurries and hits with both additional strikes. Can he/she knock opponent prone on first strike AND push back 15 feet on second strike? Can monk even push back 15 feet on successful first stike move to target and push another 15 feet on a sucessful second strike?
2) Unarmoured Movement
a) So 9th level... can the monk do a Lionel Ritchie and literallly walk up a wall as if it were a horizontal floor ie normal speed, hands free etc.
b) Can the monk do a JC and walk on water, again, as if it were just regular ol' floor
c) If answers to 2a and 2b is yes, can the monk potentailly spend the entire encounter firing spitballs (making ranged attacks) up a wall or standing on a lake? Or does he/she have be constantly on the move?
3) Timeless body (for giggles)
Here is a 15TH LEVEL ability where you don't feel the affects of age or cant be magically aged. WOW!!! talk about OP. I can't count the number of times my alzheimers has got in the way of my wizards spellasting. Then there was that time my Rogue was trying to make stealth checks using a zimmer frame ... I mean reallly? Where's my capstone power immunity to allergies? I demand an erata! I like it how no longer needing food or water is just a bonus to the main benifit state above.
Anyway thoughts on point 1) and 2) would be appreciated
1a) If the ability does not list a size restriction, then there isn't one.
1b) I read it as being only one effect imposed even if you hit the same creature with both flurry of blows attacks - your DM might disagree, as might the official position of "the rules guy" Jeremy Crawford.
2a) Yes.
2b) Yes.
2c) The ability only functions on your turn and during your move - once your turn ends and you stop moving, you are subject to the normal rules.
3) You realize that there are monsters in the monster manual which can cause you to age, and that without the timeless body feature that can be lethal for a character? And not just lethal, but the one kind of death that ressurection spells can't bring you back from.
1
a) yes, not sure I like it but the effect is more about manipulating the enemies Ki rather than simply knocking it flying through the air due to the force of the blow.
b) Yes, either of the two unarmed attacks granted by flurry of blows. Apparently yes.
2
a) yes, it probably involves some kind of technique which is at least partially supernatural. Imagine movies like crouching tiger, hidden dragon. It only works during your turn though maning you would be prone to falling after you turn ends
b) yep another ninja / shinobi / kung fu movie classic. Also only works during your turn so, you could at 9th lvl potentially move acoss a lake or stream 90' across.
c) no, see above. Only works during his own turn.
3) fluff is important too
Thanks for the clarifications on 1)
On a slight tangent, can a prone opponent make OA e.g can the monk prone the dragon and then run away laughing without getting slapped? Or at the very least is the pronee disadvantaged?
on 2) ... so if im understanding this correctly are you both saying if the monk takes any action OTHER than a move then the powers suddenly fail? That sounds reasonable especally with the "without falling during the move" clause. BUT does that also mean they can spent the entire turn moving and then continue moving the next turn and the next etc?
on 3) Yes I am aware of of magical aging but it is such an ridiculously niche immunity (magical or not) that its laughable as a 15th level ability. No-one, I mean no-one, would consider this a concern that justifies a high level immunity ability. I guess you're right ED. It's just fluff. Kinda look forward to my 101 year old human monk pulling off triple roundhouses.
Yes, a prone creature can still make an opportunity attack - but thanks to the prone condition, they make all attack rolls at disadvantage.
Monks can take other actions while moving up a wall or across the surface of liquid so long as they have enough movement left over to get them to a surface they can safely stop on after taking that action - for example, having 45 feet of movement and moving 5 feet to the edge of a body of water, then 15 feet over the water's surface before making an attack and then continuing another 25 feet across the surface of the water and back to solid ground - or they will fall.
Example of falling: You have a speed of 45 and want to cross a body of water that is 80 feet across. If you use the dash action, you can make it all the way across. If you just move 45 feet out onto the surface of the water and that's it, you sink into the water.
As for magical aging... in one campaign it is "ridiculously niche." In another campaign it is of great use because those few sorts of enemies that cause magical aging are encountered frequently, and the events of the campaign already take place over numerous decades. In another campaign still, there are effects of growing older other than just the dying of old age, such as penalties to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores that occuring in varying amounts upon reaching the benchmark ages for "middle aged" and "old" or other such categories of age.
If an enemy is sitting in a rowboat just offshore and thinks he is invulnerable (except to arrows), YES the Monk can give him a big surprise:
1) Run out, slap him around, then run back to shore (if within 1/2 the monk's move speed from shore), or
2) Run out, slap him around, and end movement in the other end of the rowboat. (if between half and full movement speed offshore)
Pirates staying just off a pier are in for a big surprise, too, because the Monk can walk on water and run up the side of the ship all on the same turn. Calculate your Monk's movement carefully for best effect!
1:a)
The D&D Basic Rules state (pg. 74, Shoving a Creature) that shoving is a special melee attack, to push a creaure back or knock it prone; it also limits such an effect to creatures no more than one size category lerger than the shoving creature.
Unless an ability or feature specifically states that it overrides this limitation, that general would apply.
1:b)
I am in agreement with Aaron on this one; only one of the effects per action.
EDIT: I'll have to look into it further. Typically, a shove (pushing or knocking prone) replaces one of the attacker's attacks with the action; but, I don't know whether the Monk's feature is granting them "in addition to" the strikes, or "in place of" a strike. I would stick to a limit of one, if it is "in addition to" the strike(s); otherwise, I would allow multiple effects, "in place of" multiple strikes. I base this on the fact that the Shoving a Creature rule does not limit shoving to once per action; it only specifies that the shove replaces "one of the attacks" a creature can make with the Attack action, not that a creature can't shove with each attack.
1:a) Shoving limitations refer specifically to the Shoving a Creature Melee Attack Action. Unless the feature specifies that you are using the Shoving a Creature melee action, then there's no other limitations to it, other than the ones explicitly stated in the feature itself.
1:b) Since the ability does not specify a limit, the only trigger for it is, in fact, each and any successful hit with one of your FoBs. Otherwise, it'd EXPLICITLY say something along the lines of "Once per turn, whenever you hit with blah blah blah", like Sneak Attack does.
FoB effects state "Whenever you HIT a creature with ONE of the attacks granted by Flurry of Blows, you can impose one of the following effects on the target:"
So this to me reads "if EITHER of your FoB strikes hit, deal appropriate damage, THEN pick effect". It doesn't say anything about the effect replacing the strike entirely. Also reading Vahnyu's comments, i agree, if it was just a regular shove, it would just say to "apply the standard shove mechanic".
p3ck wrote:
Vahnyu wrote:
Drunemeton wrote:
An Open Hand Monk can apply any effect on any hit with his or her Flurry of Blows.
"WHENEVER you hit a creature with one of the attacks granted by Flurry of Blows[...]"
Exactly as Yunru said. Once again, whenever something is meant to be used on a once per turn basis, it is specified as such. The Ranger Hunter's Collosus Slayer and Horde Breaker do, the Cleric's Divine strike does, the Rogue's Sneak Attack does.
The Open Hand technique allows you to impose one of its effects WHENEVER you hit a creature with a FoB attack. Meaning that you can impose the effect the exact moment you have confirmed the hit. Since Open Hand Technique doesn't refuse you your remaining attacks with FoB, and since it has already resolved once, the trigger "Whenever you hit a creature with a FoB attack" resets, you can perform the second FoB attack, and if it hits, you can use Open Hand Technique again.
It's not something that happens AFTER you have executed your action, it's something that happens as soon as you've executed a confirmed hit.
More Monk-i business:
Enemy opens up attack some 30 feet away in muck / mire about waist-deep. This is counted as Difficult Terrain. He thinks he is invulnerable to melee because he is too far away for the Fighter to get over to him with an Attack Action left.
My Spd 45 Monk Dashes to get 45 x 2 = 90 feet of distance, /2 because Difficult Terrain = 45 feet of movement. I'm 15 feet BEHIND him and in the cover of reeds. As a Wood Elf, I automatically get to small-h hide. So he's going to have a hard time shooting at me, and also HE cannot get to me and still have an attack left for melee.
Next turn I can normal-move up to him and Attack him (with Martial Arts so it looks like a double-attack) then back off to small-h hide again. The Fighter is up in his face by now.
