Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 prozacpusher Jun 13, 2015 9:08:55	Quick Question, can a monk use his/her open hand technique (knock prone, push, deny reaction)  during a flurry of blows against say a zombie or other non living creature?   The reason I ask this is that our DM has said that since a zombie is nonliving it has no ki to manipulate per the description of the ability, so I can't use that ability against them.  My Halfling Monk obviously disagrees with this and needs some support.   Thanks,   Bodrick The Monk
#2 jaelis Jun 13, 2015 9:31:27	DM makes the rules, but there's no strong book support for this interpretation. If that was the intention of the game rules I think they would have stated it explicitly. Anyway, ki energy "suffuses the multiverse" including one would think the bodies of undead etc.
#3 OoftaMeg Jun 13, 2015 9:33:33	Nothing in the description of the ability, nor in the description of undead states that it should not work.       I would say that any animated creature has to have ki, even if that energy is necrotic.  You may not be able to manipulate the ki of a rock, but that's becuase the rock isn't manipulating energy to animate itself.  Well, unless it's a golem but then there's still some kind of contained energy giving motion and purpose to a creature.  The book labels that energy "ki".     The key point is that nothing in the rules for monks or undead say that ki would not work.
#4 BRJN Jun 13, 2015 19:24:27	OK, so I manipulate the ki in the general environment to snatch at the undead from outside of its body; I tie his shoelaces together; make a DEX Save or fall prone.
#5 Wuzzard Jun 14, 2015 17:43:18	Tricksy undead weary sneakers!
#6 durntaur Jun 15, 2015 15:30:14	Also, specific beats general. Where applicable, the rules explicitly state when undead on constructs are not affected by a spell or other effect. This is probably the strongest argument from a rules perspective that no exemption exists for undead.
(Reply to #6) OoftaMeg	durntaur wrote:
#8 durntaur Jun 19, 2015 12:00:40	OoftaMeg wrote:
#9 Bloodscythe Jun 19, 2015 14:09:47	Maybe even look at as infusing the undead with your own Ki to disrupt the necrotic energies that animate it so knock it prone, or to push, or to deny reaction.  There's a momentary disruption in its animation, and for a brief moment, it is simply dead, not undead.  Dead things don't react.  Dead things fall prone.  Dead things can be pushed back and will continue to fall.   So even if the DM doesn't want to consider that the undead has Ki of its own, that doesn't mean your Ki shouldn't be able to influence it.   But, as Jaelis said, your DM makes the rules.
(Reply to #9) Macv12	Bloodscythe wrote: