I saw on ENworld that the mount's Disengage/Dodge/DEX saves don't apply to the rider. Is this true? Why wouldn't they? The Dash does. The PHB says this (page 198, last paragraph of the "Controlling a Mount" section):
"In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you or the mount."
That means that the rider effectively cannot Disengage separately from the mount, any more than he/she can Dash separately from the mount. Anytime the rider provokes, the mount is the one moving away and provoking. The fact that an opportunity attack provoked by the mount can also target the rider is 100% proof positive that the mount can Disengage on behalf of the rider. If the mount's failure to Disengage applies to the rider, then the mount's Disengage also applies to the rider.
Otherwise why would anyone mount? Just for the lance damage? Hardly worth it. Especially since lance attacks get disadvantage from 5 feet and in. Rider does a lance attack from 10 feet, enemy attacks from 5, and now the rider and the mount both have to Disengage in order to do a lance attack without disadvantage? No. No one's mounting if this is the case. No one mounts unless the mount can Disengage for both mount and rider.
Why would the mount's Dash apply to the rider, but not the mount's Disengage/Dodge/DEX save? The paladin's Find Steed spell says they fight seamlessly as one unit. That doesn't sound like flavor text. It sounds like physics.
So my house rules (and I suspect the official rules agree) would be as follows. The rider gets the whole 4D from the mount: Dash, Disengage, Dodge, DEX saves (even if the mount's DEX mod is inferior to the rider's, and even if the rider is proficient in DEX saves and the mount is not), without having to take an action of his/her own. If the rider has the Mounted Combatant feat, that gives the mount the Evasion ability (no damage on a DEX save that would ordinarily be for half damage, and half damage if such a save fails). I'm not suggesting that the rider get that Evasion ability. That's just because mounts don't have enough hit points to survive at higher levels. The rider would automatically save if the mount does, but the rider would still take half damage on a save and full damage on a fail when subjected to a spell/effect that says so. (Unless it's a mounted monk or rogue and he/she already has Evasion. But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.)
So mounting is more powerful than maybe the game intended it to be. But hey, mounts are expensive and don't have a lot of hit points. Maybe make Find Steed a 3rd-level paladin spell instead of 2nd. Then the paladin, if he/she takes the Mounted Combatant feat, probably takes it at 12th level instead of 8th.
In order to provoke an opportunity attack, you have to move. When you are mounted you are not using your movement action so you do not provoke (although your mount may provoke if it doesn't disengage).
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction.
If your mount does provoke an opportunity attack, the attacker can choose to attack you instead of the mount.
In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you or the mount.
So if you're in combat, you just have your mount disengage and then dash to get away without provoking.
Or am I missing your question?
That hits it. Thank you. Appreciate the disclaimer as well. So the mount's Dash and Disengage apply to the rider. What about Dodge and DEX saves? Have to move for those too.
KillerDucci wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Seems like the intended effect of Find Steed is that the mount acts on its own...as the caster directs it telepathically. It understands one language that the caster speaks. Caster doesn't use his/her movement to move the mount (he/she doesn't have any separate movement while mounted WRONG), so it's not intuitive that he/she would use his/her action to make the mount act.
THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IS NOT TRUE BECAUSE A MOUNTED PC CAN USE HALF HIS SPEED TO DISMOUNT. Actually a mounted PC cannot Dodge separately from the mount because his/her separate speed while mounted, I would think, is 0. Just like a mounted PC actually cannot Dash or Disengage separately from the mount. So thinking about the actual physics of this, how can the mount Dodge or make a DEX save without the rider doing the same?
It's very powerful, but the idea is to kill the mount, charm it (keeping in mind that Find Steed summons a celestial/fey/fiend and not an animal), or knock it prone. Warhorse only has 10 AC without barding, and 19 HP, no save proficiencies (although it's in the Aura of Protection and Aura of Devotion and therefore can't be charmed if its rider is an Oath of Devotion paladin). Mounted Combatant feat obviously makes the mount tougher to kill but it's still the way to go.
KillerDucci wrote:
You're right. I was editing just as you posted. Thank you. Obviously the rider has to use half his/her speed to dismount, so their speed is not 0. Separate Dodge, separate DEX save. Maybe put in that if the mount makes a DEX save against an area-of-effect and the rider fails (or vice versa), then the rider has to save against getting dismounted just as if the mount were knocked prone. Going belly down on the mount=
That is a logical houserule, although I am personally loathe to require back to back dexterity saves (or saving throws of any kind) as a general rule. Specific spells and effects requiring two separate saves are one thing, but those are few and far between. This house rule would come up with semi-frequency at any table with a mounted character.
A mounted PC gets knocked prone in the saddle? Wow. Is that a function of the saddle? I would've thought that it was an automatic dismount and possible fall damage. The 5e PHB doesn't appear to me to say anything about it.
Just because they are mounted does not make them immune to being knocked prone such as from a shove. Yes this might mean adex save to remain mounted but it us not guaranteed iirc