Multiclassing stats - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FunkySpunk Aug 07, 2015 15:36:26	i have a Cleric with a WIS of 16 and an INT of 10. He found a headband of intellect (INT =19), and attuned to it. Can he now multiclass into Wizard? Thanks guys!
#2 strider13x Aug 07, 2015 15:46:22	only if you are willing to lose all Wizard abilities when the headband is removed... as a DM i would say your natural ability score must meet the prequestites, so no.
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 07, 2015 16:30:29	strider13x wrote:
#4 Coredump00 Aug 07, 2015 16:36:37	There is nothing in the rules stopping you, nor anything about losing powers if you lose the headband. That said... check with your DM, since as you can see, different folks have different opinions on how best to handle it.
(Reply to #3) Viddicus	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
(Reply to #5) Coredump00	Viddicus wrote:
#7 lawrencehoy Aug 08, 2015 5:22:37	Coredump00 wrote:
#8 jaelis Aug 08, 2015 6:05:08	I have a little problem with a chacter putting on a headband in the morning and taking a level of wizard in the afternoon, I feel like the leveling process should be a little more organic than that. So I'd probably disallow it, myself. But by the book it should work.
#9 MechaPilot Aug 08, 2015 13:17:37	I agree with Coredump's assertion that the best solution is to ask your DM. If you were playing at my table, I'd tell you to just ignore the MC stat requirements anyway.
#10 Godwyn Aug 08, 2015 13:53:03	It could make for an interesting story. A character that always wanted to be a wizard but just wasn't smart enough, finally finding a magic item that allows him to fulfill his dream. As a DM, I am not sure if I would allow it or not. On one hand, I probably would not let a player plan on doing something like that. 13 is not that hard to get (unless using a stricter rolling style) so a player that always intends to go cleric/wizard I would force to do it. On the other hand, if a player never planned on it, but thinks it would be fun to do once they find the headband, maybe. Either one could easily have started as a level 1 wizard, and then multiclassed into cleric, having the wisdom to go that direction, the leveled mainly as a cleric until later on.
#11 BW0222 Aug 08, 2015 15:02:17	"Ladies and gentlement... Welcome to the anual wizardry attitude tests. Please remove all magical items and please let them in the box by the doorway. All testing will be done strictly based on inate abilities and any cheating will result in immediate explusion. Please take out your quills and list all prime factors of magic arigation in the inner planes. And Mr. Zultan... would you please take off that silly headband!" I wouldn't allow it. Schools, colleges, mentors, churches, aren't going to allow you to do such things. Why would a school/mentor/church/etc. train you if without you can't pratice as a wizard?
#12 MechaPilot Aug 08, 2015 15:17:22	BW0222 wrote:
(Reply to #11) Coredump00	BW0222 wrote:
#14 Awakened_Gazebo Aug 09, 2015 11:48:43	heh wonder if it would be possible to rent headbands/gauntlets etc in high magic worlds to multiclass? Love the action surge feature? Dreaming about a fighting style? Dont like doing pushups? or cardio? Come by Gene&Erics magical shoppe in Sharn and rent some fine gauntlets of ogre strength for XXX gold a day. No need to spend attribute points.
#15 El_Condoro Aug 09, 2015 13:42:55	I'd go with it. While the headband is being worn, the character has the same "natural aptitude" that any other character with 13+ Intelligence has. Gaining cantrips, which have been used so often as to be ingrained in a wizard character, and the ability to use spells after levelling up is kind of silly anyway. The character just has to take the risk that the headband may be gone one day and then the lousy spell attack bonus and saves for a 10 Intelligence will kick in. That's a princely gift your DM has given you BTW.
#16 Saeviomagy Aug 09, 2015 19:23:44	I would personally just appeal to the DM to remove the multiclassing attribute requirements. They serve no purpose, make no sense and have had zero time devoted to thinking through their consequences. As others have pointed out - you could start as a wizard with an intelligence score of 3, and indeed would be able to memorize a spell and cast it (along with multiple cantrips). You could even keep taking levels as a wizard, eventually blasting your foes with 9th level spells! Bizarrely being too stupid would prevent you from giving up magic and taking up the wild fighting style of a barbarian, no matter how strong or tough you were. At least for wizard it makes some tiny amount of sense - you're simply too dumb to learn being a barbarian. But the same applies with multiclassing out of barbarian when you're not particularly strong. Or giving up being a bard when you're not charismatic. or giving up being a rogue when you're not particularly nimble.
(Reply to #16) Coredump00	Saeviomagy wrote:
#18 MechaPilot Aug 10, 2015 9:15:50	Coredump00 wrote:
#19 Setis Aug 10, 2015 14:31:07	MechaPilot wrote:
(Reply to #19) Saeviomagy	Setis wrote:
#21 Sorsohka Aug 11, 2015 8:01:57	by RAW using the AL rule about illegal character created when the errata came out; If your character is made illegal you can do the simplest minimu among of changes in order to make him legal again. The example is a warlock crates using the wrong interpretation of the rule, using the character level instead of the warlock level to choose the invocation, need to choose a new legal invocation, instead of removing the other multicalss level to increase the warlock level) if your score is higher then 13 you can multiclass wizard. No limitation about the how you obtain that 13 Intellect. But if your intellect get under 13, then your character is illegal and must be changed to become legal in the simplest way possible. so for example the cleric8/wizard5, The easiest way is to lower one of the stats to upgrade Intellect to 13 (using the AL point buy system) So remove your racial and ASI, bringing your stat back to a 27 point score, reorginize your stat so you have 13 Intellect in the simplest way (take a 13 or 14 that you own and switch it with your Intellect, if you have no stats of 13 or 14, then lower one of your high stat untill you got enought point to increase your Intellect to 13) Changing your stat wold be a lot simpler then changing those 5 wizard level.
(Reply to #21) Coredump00	Sorsohka wrote:
(Reply to #22) OoftaMeg	Coredump00 wrote:
#24 Quad_Hund Aug 11, 2015 12:47:59	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
(Reply to #24) Saeviomagy	Quad_Hund wrote:
#26 Avross Aug 11, 2015 15:58:31	Sorsohka wrote:
#27 Greenstone.Walker Aug 11, 2015 19:19:04	Saeviomagy wrote:
#28 MechaPilot Aug 11, 2015 23:08:38	Greenstone.Walker wrote:
(Reply to #27) Saeviomagy	Greenstone.Walker wrote:
#30 Enevhar_Aldarion Aug 12, 2015 2:20:01	5th Edition has done a lot of good things with the updates to the rules, but getting rid of the minimum stat requirement to qualify for a class was not one of them. My House Rule for this is that a character cannot have a primary stat for a class that gives a negative modifier, so in other words, a minimum of 10 is required in the primary stat. No one is going to train an idiot to be a mage or a weakling to be a fighter. And I have friends who, as their House Rule, take the multiclass minimum stat requirement of 13 and extrapolate that to mean that even single class characters need at least a 13 in their primary stat also. Besides, the number of times characters are made with less than 13 in the main stat has to be miniscule.
(Reply to #26) Sorsohka	Avross wrote:
(Reply to #23) Coredump00	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #26) Coredump00	Avross wrote:
(Reply to #32) OoftaMeg	Coredump00 wrote:
#35 Ghost_Gallus Aug 12, 2015 19:50:54	Saeviomagy wrote:
(Reply to #34) Coredump00	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #35) Saeviomagy	Ghost_Gallus wrote:
#38 Tarsus Sep 19, 2015 10:54:12	Just looking this up for AL and I think the AL reccommended rulings thread might help: http://community.wizards.com/forum/dd-adventurers-league/threads/4193086 I'm a fighter who found a headband of intellect. Since I now had a high enough Intelligence to qualify, I started multiclassing in wizard. Then, a monster broke my headband in a fight. Do I still keep my wizard abilities? Hide Yes, there is nothing in the multiclassing rules in the Player's Handbook or in the ALPG that says you lose the abilities of classes you've multiclassed into if you no longer qualify for them. However, note that your spell attacks and spell save DCs would need to be re-calculated based on your new, lower Int modifier. Can I continue to multiclass as a wizard? Yes. Even though you no longer 'qualify' for the class as per the multiclassing rules in the Player's Handbook, you've already taken one or more levels in wizard, so you can continue to take levels in that (or any other) class you've already previously qualified for. Can I multiclass into rogue? No. Even if your Dex was high enough to allow it, your Int is no longer high enough to meet the qualification requirement: note that the multiclassing rules require that you must have a high enough stat in the class you want to take and in your current class (which I am interpreting here to mean all current classes), to take a new class. Until you either find a new headband of intellect or otherwise raise your Int high enough to get to 13 or higher, you will no longer be able to multiclass.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

FunkySpunk

Aug 07, 2015 15:36:26

i have a Cleric with a WIS of 16 and an INT of 10.

He found a headband of intellect (INT =19), and attuned to it.

Can he now multiclass into Wizard?

Thanks guys!

strider13x

Aug 07, 2015 15:46:22

only if you are willing to lose all Wizard abilities when the headband is removed...

as a DM i would say your natural ability score must meet the prequestites, so no.

Tempest_Stormwind

Aug 07, 2015 16:30:29

strider13x wrote:

Coredump00

Aug 07, 2015 16:36:37

There is nothing in the rules stopping you, nor anything about losing powers if you lose the headband.

That said... check with your DM, since as you can see, different folks have different opinions on how best to handle it.

(Reply to #3)

Viddicus

Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

(Reply to #5)

Coredump00

Viddicus wrote:

lawrencehoy

Aug 08, 2015 5:22:37

Coredump00 wrote:

jaelis

Aug 08, 2015 6:05:08

I have a little problem with a chacter putting on a headband in the morning and taking a level of wizard in the afternoon, I feel like the leveling process should be a little more organic than that. So I'd probably disallow it, myself.

But by the book it should work.

MechaPilot

Aug 08, 2015 13:17:37

I agree with Coredump's assertion that the best solution is to ask your DM. If you were playing at my table, I'd tell you to just ignore the MC stat requirements anyway.

#10

Godwyn

Aug 08, 2015 13:53:03

It could make for an interesting story. A character that always wanted to be a wizard but just wasn't smart enough, finally finding a magic item that allows him to fulfill his dream.

As a DM, I am not sure if I would allow it or not. On one hand, I probably would not let a player plan on doing something like that. 13 is not that hard to get (unless using a stricter rolling style) so a player that always intends to go cleric/wizard I would force to do it. On the other hand, if a player never planned on it, but thinks it would be fun to do once they find the headband, maybe. Either one could easily have started as a level 1 wizard, and then multiclassed into cleric, having the wisdom to go that direction, the leveled mainly as a cleric until later on.

#11

BW0222

Aug 08, 2015 15:02:17

"Ladies and gentlement... Welcome to the anual wizardry attitude tests. Please remove all magical items and please let them in the box by the doorway. All testing will be done strictly based on inate abilities and any cheating will result in immediate explusion. Please take out your quills and list all prime factors of magic arigation in the inner planes. And Mr. Zultan... would you please take off that silly headband!"

I wouldn't allow it. Schools, colleges, mentors, churches, aren't going to allow you to do such things. Why would a school/mentor/church/etc. train you if without you can't pratice as a wizard?

#12

MechaPilot

Aug 08, 2015 15:17:22

BW0222 wrote:

(Reply to #11)

Coredump00

BW0222 wrote:

#14

Awakened_Gazebo

Aug 09, 2015 11:48:43

heh wonder if it would be possible to rent headbands/gauntlets etc in high magic worlds to multiclass?

Love the action surge feature?

Dreaming about a fighting style?

Dont like doing pushups? or cardio?

Come by Gene&Erics magical shoppe in Sharn and rent some fine gauntlets of ogre strength for XXX gold a day. No need to spend attribute points.

#15

El_Condoro

Aug 09, 2015 13:42:55

I'd go with it. While the headband is being worn, the character has the same "natural aptitude" that any other character with 13+ Intelligence has. Gaining cantrips, which have been used so often as to be ingrained in a wizard character, and the ability to use spells after levelling up is kind of silly anyway. The character just has to take the risk that the headband may be gone one day and then the lousy spell attack bonus and saves for a 10 Intelligence will kick in. That's a princely gift your DM has given you BTW.

#16

Saeviomagy

Aug 09, 2015 19:23:44

I would personally just appeal to the DM to remove the multiclassing attribute requirements. They serve no purpose, make no sense and have had zero time devoted to thinking through their consequences.

As others have pointed out - you could start as a wizard with an intelligence score of 3, and indeed would be able to memorize a spell and cast it (along with multiple cantrips). You could even keep taking levels as a wizard, eventually blasting your foes with 9th level spells! Bizarrely being too stupid would prevent you from giving up magic and taking up the wild fighting style of a barbarian, no matter how strong or tough you were.

At least for wizard it makes some tiny amount of sense - you're simply too dumb to learn being a barbarian. But the same applies with multiclassing out of barbarian when you're not particularly strong. Or giving up being a bard when you're not charismatic. or giving up being a rogue when you're not particularly nimble.

(Reply to #16)

Coredump00

Saeviomagy wrote:

#18

MechaPilot

Aug 10, 2015 9:15:50

Coredump00 wrote:

#19

Setis

Aug 10, 2015 14:31:07

MechaPilot wrote:

(Reply to #19)

Saeviomagy

Setis wrote:

#21

Sorsohka

Aug 11, 2015 8:01:57

by RAW using the AL rule about illegal character created when the errata came out; If your character is made illegal you can do the simplest minimu among of changes in order to make him legal again. The example is a warlock crates using the wrong interpretation of the rule, using the character level instead of the warlock level to choose the invocation, need to choose a new legal invocation, instead of removing the other multicalss level to increase the warlock level)

if your score is higher then 13 you can multiclass wizard. No limitation about the how you obtain that 13 Intellect.

But if your intellect get under 13, then your character is illegal and must be changed to become legal in the simplest way possible.

so for example the cleric8/wizard5, The easiest way is to lower one of the stats to upgrade Intellect to 13 (using the AL point buy system) So remove your racial and ASI, bringing your stat back to a 27 point score, reorginize your stat so you have 13 Intellect in the simplest way (take a 13 or 14 that you own and switch it with your Intellect, if you have no stats of 13 or 14, then lower one of your high stat untill you got enought point to increase your Intellect to 13)

Changing your stat wold be a lot simpler then changing those 5 wizard level.

(Reply to #21)

Coredump00

Sorsohka wrote:

(Reply to #22)

OoftaMeg

Coredump00 wrote:

#24

Quad_Hund

Aug 11, 2015 12:47:59

Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

(Reply to #24)

Saeviomagy

Quad_Hund wrote:

#26

Avross

Aug 11, 2015 15:58:31

Sorsohka wrote:

#27

Greenstone.Walker

Aug 11, 2015 19:19:04

Saeviomagy wrote:

#28

MechaPilot

Aug 11, 2015 23:08:38

Greenstone.Walker wrote:

(Reply to #27)

Saeviomagy

Greenstone.Walker wrote:

#30

Enevhar_Aldarion

Aug 12, 2015 2:20:01

5th Edition has done a lot of good things with the updates to the rules, but getting rid of the minimum stat requirement to qualify for a class was not one of them. My House Rule for this is that a character cannot have a primary stat for a class that gives a negative modifier, so in other words, a minimum of 10 is required in the primary stat. No one is going to train an idiot to be a mage or a weakling to be a fighter. And I have friends who, as their House Rule, take the multiclass minimum stat requirement of 13 and extrapolate that to mean that even single class characters need at least a 13 in their primary stat also. Besides, the number of times characters are made with less than 13 in the main stat has to be miniscule.

(Reply to #26)

Sorsohka

Avross wrote:

(Reply to #23)

Coredump00

OoftaMeg wrote:

(Reply to #26)

Coredump00

Avross wrote:

(Reply to #32)

OoftaMeg

Coredump00 wrote:

#35

Ghost_Gallus

Aug 12, 2015 19:50:54

Saeviomagy wrote:

(Reply to #34)

Coredump00

OoftaMeg wrote:

(Reply to #35)

Saeviomagy

Ghost_Gallus wrote:

#38

Tarsus

Sep 19, 2015 10:54:12

Just looking this up for AL and I think the AL reccommended rulings thread might help:

http://community.wizards.com/forum/dd-adventurers-league/threads/4193086

I'm a fighter who found a headband of intellect. Since I now had a high enough Intelligence to qualify, I started multiclassing in wizard. Then, a monster broke my headband in a fight. Do I still keep my wizard abilities?

Hide

Yes, there is nothing in the multiclassing rules in the Player's Handbook or in the ALPG that says you lose the abilities of classes you've multiclassed into if you no longer qualify for them. However, note that your spell attacks and spell save DCs would need to be re-calculated based on your new, lower Int modifier.

Can I continue to multiclass as a wizard?

Yes. Even though you no longer 'qualify' for the class as per the multiclassing rules in the Player's Handbook, you've already taken one or more levels in wizard, so you can continue to take levels in that (or any other) class you've already previously qualified for.

Can I multiclass into rogue?

No. Even if your Dex was high enough to allow it, your Int is no longer high enough to meet the qualification requirement: note that the multiclassing rules require that you must have a high enough stat in the class you want to take and in your current class (which I am interpreting here to mean all current classes), to take a new class. Until you either find a new headband of intellect or otherwise raise your Int high enough to get to 13 or higher, you will no longer be able to multiclass.