No charge in 5e? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xirr2000 Sep 03, 2014 14:28:23	I'm sure there is a thread on this already, but he search seemed to give me a lot more than 5e charge threads so I'm posting this. Is there no charge action in 5e? I know there is the feat, but do you have to have that feat in order to charge these days?
#2 j2klbs Sep 03, 2014 14:55:06	Correct. There are no core rules for charge. If you need to move farther than your base move and still attack, it is considered something special.
#3 reddaemon Sep 03, 2014 15:02:14	There is no out-of-the-box way to charge, but there is a feat that allows you to accomplish it. Charger When you use your action to Dash, you can use a bonus action to make one melee w eapon attack or to shove a creature. If you move at least 10 feet in a straight line immediately before taking this bonus action, you either gain a +5 bonus to the attack’s damage roll (if you chose to make a melee attack and hit) or push the target up to 10 feet away from you (if you chose to shove and you succeed).
#4 xirr2000 Sep 03, 2014 15:16:58	That's what i thought, nice feat though. +5 damage aint too shabby. Although as hard as feats are to come by, not sure I'd be too excited about this.
#5 Toshi Sep 04, 2014 22:11:01	They do say in the handbook to pattern any other Action after the ones already made to create your own actions. It wouldn't be hard to take the charge feat as a skeleton and lower the bonus to damage to make your own action.
#6 Psikerlord Sep 05, 2014 0:20:27	I suspect I would let anyone "charge" as an improvised action (allowing them to move twice and make a melee attack, no bonuses), but the next attack roll against them (until the start of their next turn) is at adv. So anyone can move twice and attack, but those who take the charge feat can do it better and with no downside.
#7 Prism Sep 05, 2014 3:55:28	Rogues can move, dash and attack which emulates the speed part of the charge Monks can spend a ki point to use step of the wind which allows move, dash and attack (and massive jumps too!) The charger feat allows a move and dash before an attack with bonus effects Various spells can do this too As a player I am currently quite happy that the monsters can't do it easily either
#8 Sorxores Sep 05, 2014 7:25:20	under improvised action (p193) you can describe the action you want to do if it' snot cover in the PHB and your DM will create the rule for it, going from not allowed, ok but do a X check, you can do it with penalty, you can do it with bonus etc... Personnaly if I was DMing, since there is a feat that let you move twice then use a bonus action to make a single weapon attack with a +5 damage or shove with a +10ft. I would say that if you use your move (30ft for most player) + maximum half the dash action (only half your movement) so 15ft) for a total of 45ft, you can use your bonus action to get a single weapon attack without penalty nor bonuses Basically without the feat or racial/class feature If you use your action to move just half your speed you can do a single weapon attack with a bonus action
#9 Kentus Sep 05, 2014 9:04:52	I'm pretty sure, common charge rules will be in the DMG. But since charging wasn't a too popular choice in most editions (since full-attacks and powers where the better choice most of the time), and the thought how you'd integrate it with the basic actions, I guess they just left it for later. The DMG will surely have a whole section for optional combat rules (which might be compiled in a later version of the Basic Rules).
(Reply to #7) Hailrobonia	Prism wrote:
#11 Chaosmancer Sep 05, 2014 12:57:08	I like it on one hand. I have a player in 4e who keeps saying "I charge" when he means "I move up and attack" and I have to keep reminding him that charging is a special action, one that another player has optimized to brutal effect so the distinction does matter to our table
#12 ProphetSword Sep 05, 2014 14:28:03	The charge action was in the playtest, and was removed. In the playtest, a character could move half his speed and take one attack when taking the charge action. (So, they would move, move again at half speed and take one attack). My players liked it enough that we house-ruled it back into the game. I find players use it mostly at the beginning of combat or when they need to do something quickly, like get inbetween a rampaging ogre and the party wizard who is low on health. It now works like this: Anyone can do use a basic charge action. They move half their speed and attack once. This also consumes their bonus action. If they take the feat, they get full movement instead of half and the +5 bonus that's listed, just like the feat says. (Fighter in the group took it...because even with a basic charge action, that is still nice...so house-ruling in a basic charge doesn't break the game in any way for us). Something to think about for the DMs who want to put it back in the game or add it. Of course, monsters can do it too.
(Reply to #12) Toshi	ProphetSword wrote:
#14 DM_HEEGZ Sep 05, 2014 23:59:58	You can give adv to the attack after charging, and attacks against the charger have advantage until their next turn. I believe instead of making a melee attack, you could also take the shove action to push them 5ft or knock prone. I would give Adv to the charger on the opposed Str checks to shove after charging.
#15 Psikerlord Sep 06, 2014 3:09:02	ProphetSword wrote:
(Reply to #13) ProphetSword	Toshi wrote:
#17 Thoughts_My_Aim Sep 06, 2014 15:54:01	I'm really torn about the lack of the charge action. Like the 4E player above, I have to admit to being the sort of person who says "charge" when they mean "move forwards and attack" and there is an extent to which I find the need to distinguish between "moving towards an enemy and attacking them" and "game mechanically charging" rather irksome.
#18 Sherman Sep 06, 2014 22:02:49	I'm not sure why people like this rule. It's a horrible way to fight. Awesome if you're on a horse, or part of an intimidating block of 1,000 men, but on your own rushing forward swinging like a mad man pretty much means you get hit while your attack glances harmlessly off someone's shield.
#19 Thoughts_My_Aim Sep 07, 2014 9:34:46	Sherman wrote:
#20 Kalani Sep 07, 2014 11:13:48	I have no problem with someone recklessly charging toward an opponent in order to close the range. The current rules support this, both with the Dash action, and with the Charger feat. I do however, have a problem envisioning someone charging with every action however...not when they have a target standing in front of them already. Why would you disengage from a target, then either a) charge a different target, or b) charge the same target repeatedly.....when you could more easily strike the target with your weapon? That is an insane way to fight, and I mean that in the psychotic, dillusional sense. Yet despite this, it became a popular strategy in both 3.5 and especially 4E due to the mechanical advantages the character gained by pinball charging. Charging in 5E is closer to how it should work in real life.... You move swiftly toward an opponent and try to catch your opponent off-guard with a sudden, unexpected strike (the bonus action attack). Once completed, you then continue hacking away at your target until dead, or until you disengage (for whatever reason). Then, charge at a new foe and repeat until dead.
#21 rettekram Sep 26, 2014 16:31:32	What about charging on a mount? Surely there are some paladins out there who want to do that.
#22 RCanine Sep 26, 2014 17:55:07	ProphetSword wrote:
#23 E-Tallitnics Sep 26, 2014 19:59:50	http://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/do-not-charge/
(Reply to #20) GabrielPendragon	Kalani wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

xirr2000

Sep 03, 2014 14:28:23

I'm sure there is a thread on this already, but he search seemed to give me a lot more than 5e charge threads so I'm posting this. Is there no charge action in 5e? I know there is the feat, but do you have to have that feat in order to charge these days?

j2klbs

Sep 03, 2014 14:55:06

Correct. There are no core rules for charge. If you need to move farther than your base move and still attack, it is considered something special.

reddaemon

Sep 03, 2014 15:02:14

There is no out-of-the-box way to charge, but there is a feat that allows you to accomplish it.

Charger
When you use your action to Dash, you can use a
bonus action to make one melee w eapon attack or to
shove a creature.
If you move at least 10 feet in a straight line
immediately before taking this bonus action, you either
gain a +5 bonus to the attack’s damage roll (if you chose
to make a melee attack and hit) or push the target up
to 10 feet away from you (if you chose to shove and
you succeed).

xirr2000

Sep 03, 2014 15:16:58

That's what i thought, nice feat though. +5 damage aint too shabby. Although as hard as feats are to come by, not sure I'd be too excited about this.

Toshi

Sep 04, 2014 22:11:01

They do say in the handbook to pattern any other Action after the ones already made to create your own actions. It wouldn't be hard to take the charge feat as a skeleton and lower the bonus to damage to make your own action.

Psikerlord

Sep 05, 2014 0:20:27

I suspect I would let anyone "charge" as an improvised action (allowing them to move twice and make a melee attack, no bonuses), but the next attack roll against them (until the start of their next turn) is at adv. So anyone can move twice and attack, but those who take the charge feat can do it better and with no downside.

Prism

Sep 05, 2014 3:55:28

Rogues can move, dash and attack which emulates the speed part of the charge

Monks can spend a ki point to use step of the wind which allows move, dash and attack (and massive jumps too!)

The charger feat allows a move and dash before an attack with bonus effects

Various spells can do this too

As a player I am currently quite happy that the monsters can't do it easily either

Sorxores

Sep 05, 2014 7:25:20

under improvised action (p193) you can describe the action you want to do if it' snot cover in the PHB and your DM will create the rule for it, going from not allowed, ok but do a X check, you can do it with penalty, you can do it with bonus etc...

Personnaly if I was DMing, since there is a feat that let you move twice then use a bonus action to make a single weapon attack with a +5 damage or shove with a +10ft.

I would say that if you use your move (30ft for most player) + maximum half the dash action (only half your movement) so 15ft) for a total of 45ft, you can use your bonus action to get a single weapon attack without penalty nor bonuses

Basically without the feat or racial/class feature If you use your action to move just half your speed you can do a single weapon attack with a bonus action

Kentus

Sep 05, 2014 9:04:52

I'm pretty sure, common charge rules will be in the DMG. But since charging wasn't a too popular choice in most editions (since full-attacks and powers where the better choice most of the time), and the thought how you'd integrate it with the basic actions, I guess they just left it for later.

The DMG will surely have a whole section for optional combat rules (which might be compiled in a later version of the Basic Rules).

(Reply to #7)

Hailrobonia

Prism wrote:

#11

Chaosmancer

Sep 05, 2014 12:57:08

I like it on one hand. I have a player in 4e who keeps saying "I charge" when he means "I move up and attack" and I have to keep reminding him that charging is a special action, one that another player has optimized to brutal effect so the distinction does matter to our table

#12

ProphetSword

Sep 05, 2014 14:28:03

The charge action was in the playtest, and was removed. In the playtest, a character could move half his speed and take one attack when taking the charge action. (So, they would move, move again at half speed and take one attack).

My players liked it enough that we house-ruled it back into the game. I find players use it mostly at the beginning of combat or when they need to do something quickly, like get inbetween a rampaging ogre and the party wizard who is low on health. It now works like this:

Anyone can do use a basic charge action. They move half their speed and attack once. This also consumes their bonus action.

If they take the feat, they get full movement instead of half and the +5 bonus that's listed, just like the feat says. (Fighter in the group took it...because even with a basic charge action, that is still nice...so house-ruling in a basic charge doesn't break the game in any way for us).

Something to think about for the DMs who want to put it back in the game or add it. Of course, monsters can do it too.

(Reply to #12)

Toshi

ProphetSword wrote:

#14

DM_HEEGZ

Sep 05, 2014 23:59:58

You can give adv to the attack after charging, and attacks against the charger have advantage until their next turn. I believe instead of making a melee attack, you could also take the shove action to push them 5ft or knock prone. I would give Adv to the charger on the opposed Str checks to shove after charging.

#15

Psikerlord

Sep 06, 2014 3:09:02

ProphetSword wrote:

(Reply to #13)

ProphetSword

Toshi wrote:

#17

Thoughts_My_Aim

Sep 06, 2014 15:54:01

I'm really torn about the lack of the charge action. Like the 4E player above, I have to admit to being the sort of person who says "charge" when they mean "move forwards and attack" and there is an extent to which I find the need to distinguish between "moving towards an enemy and attacking them" and "game mechanically charging" rather irksome.

#18

Sherman

Sep 06, 2014 22:02:49

I'm not sure why people like this rule. It's a horrible way to fight. Awesome if you're on a horse, or part of an intimidating block of 1,000 men, but on your own rushing forward swinging like a mad man pretty much means you get hit while your attack glances harmlessly off someone's shield.

#19

Thoughts_My_Aim

Sep 07, 2014 9:34:46

Sherman wrote:

#20

Kalani

Sep 07, 2014 11:13:48

I have no problem with someone recklessly charging toward an opponent in order to close the range. The current rules support this, both with the Dash action, and with the Charger feat.

I do however, have a problem envisioning someone charging with every action however...not when they have a target standing in front of them already. Why would you disengage from a target, then either a) charge a different target, or b) charge the same target repeatedly.....when you could more easily strike the target with your weapon?

That is an insane way to fight, and I mean that in the psychotic, dillusional sense. Yet despite this, it became a popular strategy in both 3.5 and especially 4E due to the mechanical advantages the character gained by pinball charging.

Charging in 5E is closer to how it should work in real life.... You move swiftly toward an opponent and try to catch your opponent off-guard with a sudden, unexpected strike (the bonus action attack). Once completed, you then continue hacking away at your target until dead, or until you disengage (for whatever reason). Then, charge at a new foe and repeat until dead.

#21

rettekram

Sep 26, 2014 16:31:32

What about charging on a mount? Surely there are some paladins out there who want to do that.

#22

RCanine

Sep 26, 2014 17:55:07

ProphetSword wrote:

#23

E-Tallitnics

Sep 26, 2014 19:59:50

http://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/do-not-charge/

(Reply to #20)

GabrielPendragon

Kalani wrote: