Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 daedel Sep 11, 2014 6:23:34	is it possible to notice an invisible creature? With a Perception roll? Are there any negative modifiers? Would that give you its exact position?
#2 mellored Sep 11, 2014 6:54:21	Yes. Yes.  Though they might be rolling stealth vs passive perception. No, though you still take disavantage to attack them. Yes.   They might also try to hide again on some other turn.
#3 FluffyBunbunKittens Sep 11, 2014 7:56:25	It's a regular Perception vs invisible critter's Stealth, like any case vs a hidden party.   Just being invisible does not mean you're also hidden (people know where you are), invisibility just means you can take the Hide action anywhere, and attacks against you are at disadvantage.
(Reply to #2) daedel	mellored wrote:
#5 Guest703856308 Sep 11, 2014 10:59:27	FluffyBunbunKittens wrote:
#6 Plaguescarred1 Sep 11, 2014 11:07:05	daedel wrote:
#7 Guest703856308 Sep 11, 2014 13:39:50	In that quote, it says *can" be detected, not that it is automatically detected without a perception check...
#8 TrustTymora Sep 11, 2014 15:49:13	daedel wrote:
#9 TrustTymora Sep 11, 2014 15:53:15	Plaguescarred wrote:
#10 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 6:31:18	What says you can't make a stealth check to be quiet when moving on your turn?  Why wouldn't anyone invisible be able to do that?
#11 E-Tallitnics Sep 11, 2014 19:50:58	Guest703856308 wrote:
#12 2Chlorobutanal Sep 11, 2014 21:45:46	Attempting to go unnoticed (while in combat) constitutes the Hide "action in combat", which generally costs a character's action for the turn.  Even invisible characters would have to Hide to avoid detection.  The advantage is than an invisible character can choose to hide anywhere at any time, as long as he or she takes the action to do so.
#13 Psikerlord Sep 12, 2014 5:08:39	out of combat, i would generally allow automatic hiding with invisibility, in the sense that i dont think there would be any real chance of failure if youre careful, and no one is expecting trouble. In combat I would almost always require a roll.
#14 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 6:29:53	E-Tallitnics wrote:
#15 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 6:35:41	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#16 BW0222 Sep 12, 2014 8:28:52	There are obviously lots of cases when an invisible creature would be detected, might be detected, or wouldn't be detected. This comes down to the sitatution and DM rulings. Examples..   a) The invisibile creature interacts with an object -- opens a door, moves a chair, etc. This could easily be automatic for creatures to detect (the PCs are look at the door), a perception check (the PCs are busy in combat, a disadvantaged perception check (the door is in a dim area and there is major combat with lots of noise), etc. They would only likely suspect a creature was where the object was moved and it could have moved away from the area.   b) The invisible creature leaves tracks or through a visible medium -- moving through snow, mud, light fog, tall grass, swimming in water, caught in a web spell, etc. Again, DMs call on automatic, perception check, etc. You would likely know the exact 5' square the creature is currently in.   c) You hear the invisibile creature. Typically a perception check. IMO, this would only give the approximate direction. Again, DMs call on whether this is automatic (moving quickly through a floor of broken glass), a check (combat or opponent is attempting stealth), or impossible (bard singing, waterfall, the invisible creature isn't moving, etc.)   d) Smell. Likely on an animal such as a dog. Again, likely a perception check revealing the general direction and not the exact 5' square.   e) Touch. You physically move into the invisibile creature's square -- or it attempt to. You bump into it. You likely know the 5' square it was in.   f) Area spells. Fireball, burning hands, lightning bolt, etc. You would likely see the spell effect wrap around the invisibile creature. I'd say this would be automatic, although if there were a lot of creatures or objects, you might as for a perception check. Continuous effects (say entangle, web, etc.) might allow you to know the 5' square the creature is in for some time.
#17 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 9:43:25	I like those practical approaches to invisibility rather than automatic continued detection.  Presumably similar rules would apply in a darkness field when dealing with a foe who can see in it, presumably that foe could move in it without a hide action and others would need to check where that foe moved to.
#18 TrustTymora Sep 12, 2014 10:03:02	Guest703856308 wrote:
#19 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 11:38:54	Can one not free action open a door knob with stealth?  Stealthily free action draw a weapon?  Why not stealthily move during their movement action, outside of a hide action?  If invisible, one is just changing their location, not hiding for advantage.
#20 FluffyBunbunKittens Sep 12, 2014 12:41:46	Guest703856308 wrote:
#21 TrustTymora Sep 12, 2014 13:54:22	Guest703856308 wrote:
#22 Hailrobonia Sep 12, 2014 14:28:50	Some things to keep in mind:   You can still hear and smell invisible creatures, as well as see their footprints. We don't generally think about how visible these would be, but in just about anything but 100% solid surfaces they'd be visible in some degree.   Invisibility may not be 100%; perhaps there is a slight shimmer where the air is displaced by the creature.   Flying invisible creatures may have flapping noises or generate air currents.   Finally, intelligent beings in a fantasy world would probably be quite aware of the existance of invisibility effects and react accordingly.
#23 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 17:09:53	FluffyBunbunKittens wrote:
#24 Guest703856308 Sep 12, 2014 17:11:14	Luke-Lightning wrote:
#25 Guest703856308 Sep 15, 2014 5:55:14	Note p182, you get Athletics and Acrobatics checks as part of movement, it seems one can do the same with other applicable skills, and make a Stealth check during movement (or free action that warrants stealth, like turning a doorknob).   Further, p97, a Rogue / Thief gets Supreme Sneak, which grants advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you move no more than half your speed on the same turn, which clearly means you can make a Dexterity (Stealth) check during your movement.
#26 Guest703856308 Sep 15, 2014 5:57:20	And from a realism standpoint, if you don't allow it, then there is no distiguishing perceiving the location of the invisible rampaging bugbear versus the invisible stalker, the former who is probably no so good at the stealth while the latter likely is.