Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mistermoxie Apr 30, 2015 9:42:15	I recently had one of my players point out that the Nystul's Magic Aura spell description is worded in a way that contradicts itself.   It initially states that it makes divination spells perceive the target differently, but the Mask usage description explicitly mentions the symbol spell recognizing a changed creature type aura, and that's not a divination spell. The question is, then, what are the limitations on this treatment of creature type? If a Material-native humanoid makes itself permanently masked as, say, an earth elemental, is it immune to charm person, which explictly afftects humanoids? How would banishment affect such a masked creature? Since earth elementals are native to another plane, would the masked creature get banished to the Elemental Plane of Earth, possibly permanently?   Both my player and I are a little concerned over the potential abuses that this discrepancy opens the door for, so I'm trying to get other opinions and ideally an adjudication from the designers on their intent.   Thanks!
#2 mellored Apr 30, 2015 9:51:16	It's not contradictory.  It works for both diviniation spells and the symbols spell. They are not immune to anything.  It's simply a disguse, for spells.   If you walk into a guard room disguised as a guard, no one will attack you, but that doesn't make you immune to their swords. Likewise if you walk onto a glyph of warding, with a false aura of the right type, it won't explode, but that doesn't make you immune the damage.
#3 mistermoxie Apr 30, 2015 14:29:30	So you're taking the interpretation that, because a non-divination spell is mentioned as an example, it is not restriced to divination spells? Wouldn't that logically lead to the interpretation that spells like charm person wouldn't work on a creature covered by this illusion, since they would have to detect creature type to determine whether they work or not? Or are you just deciding to only accept the spells explicitly mentioned (divination spells and symbol) as valid uses? If the latter is the case, I don't think that makes a lot of sense, since symbol and Divine Sense are given as particular examples of the broad category of "spells and magical effects that detect creature types".   I'm not suggesting that disguising creature type would confer damage immunities. I used charm person as an example because it explicitly is meant to work only on humanoids, and humanoid is a creature type. I get that things like glyph of warding won't detect an appropriately concealed creature. My question is for spells that don't scan the area for a trigger, but instead determine whether or not they work at all based on creature type (such as charm person, dominate beast, crown of madness, etc).
#4 EmpactWB Apr 30, 2015 16:23:31	I'd like to point out that the actual text is "You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects that detect creature type, like the paladin's Divine Sense or the trigger of a symbol spell." This is clearly intended to be more broadly applied than to just divination spells, so I don't see the issue.   As it doesn't actually change creature type, hold person et al still succeeds or fails as appropriate.
#5 reddaemon Apr 30, 2015 20:58:05	I would say yes to your charm person example but no to banishment. First, Nystul's Magic Aura can only be cast on willing targets. Also, Banishment makes no mention of creature types. Just because your creature type is fiend doesn't mean you aren't native to the matetial plane. Even if it did i would probably rule against it because it could be abused to gain access to the same effect as Plane Shift but at a much lower level. Don't forget that it also works on magic items that work differently for certain creature types or alignments. You can cast Nystul's Magic Aura on yourself as a good aligned character and put on a robe of the Archmage of Evil alignment.
#6 mellored May 01, 2015 6:22:15	The aura doesn't change your type.  It only changes how you apear.   Putting a guy in a horse suit does not make him vulnerable to animal friendship. Putting a fake beard on a gnome does not make him a dwarf, and he isn't immune to poision. Putting a undead aura on a creature does not make him undead.  You might fool a cleric into casting turn undead, but the spell wouldn't affect you. Putting a living arua on an undead creature does not make him living.  You might fool a cleric into NOT casting turn undead, but if he did, it would still affect it.     Symbols won't trigger when someone with an arua walks onto it, because it doesn't think you are the right person to trigger on, not because it's immune to it's effects.  If someone else triggered it, you would still be hurt.
#7 reddaemon May 01, 2015 8:18:17	I would rule that it works for any spell or effect that mentions a creature type or alignment. Charm Person, Magic Circle, Hold Person, Protection from Evil and Good, Detect Evil and Good, Magic items that work for different creature type, etc. I'm not about to go through every spell or effect and give a yea or nay answer. The spell is still very situational even if I rule it this way. Yea that means someone could possibly make themselves immune to charm person and hold person, but charm monster and hold monster still work. It's a grey area open to GM interpretation though and not everyone will rule the same.
#8 jaelis May 01, 2015 9:08:32	mellored wrote:
#9 Bumpo May 01, 2015 13:22:23	jaelis wrote: