Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 WilliamCQ Apr 06, 2015 17:59:02	With experience with another character, I like using stealth for offensive actions. Up to now I've been hiding the classical way; although I have a question about that which I'll bring up later. I've created a new character which I'm remaking, being level 4 or under, and am considering changing race to a lightfoot halfling in order to benefit from Naturally Stealthy (PHB p. 28). So--during--encounters, could I hide behind a larger ally? If so, how could I have my PC attack hidden that way? Could my PC then move remaining hidden even if not behind a larger ally nor a cover while benefitting from a hidden offensive action? Or would the moment not being covered or obscured end the hidden status? If the latter, could my PC take an offensive action through an ally while being hidden? If so, would there be a malus? Also if once my PC be hidden behind a larger ally, would he loose the hidden status from a foe that would move and the angle make it so that I wouldn't be behind a larger ally?   Now for my question for regular stealth, using the tactic of taking cover between actions, can I also hide doing so? So when covered my PC would hide but the rest of the tactic would be the same; ie: covering behind a crate, bar, etc.
#2 Macv12 Apr 06, 2015 22:19:17	So--during--encounters, could I hide behind a larger ally?
#3 mellored Apr 07, 2015 0:02:42	agree with Macv12 on all counts.
#4 jaelis Apr 07, 2015 4:31:22	Macv12 wrote:
#5 Noctaem Apr 07, 2015 7:16:49	mellored wrote:
#6 Coredump00 Apr 07, 2015 7:33:07	While I agree with Macv12, I think it stops short.   The question of "can I do this?" is easy, yes you *can* do it.  Meaning it is possible within the rules.   But if you expand that to "Can I do this over an over without any penalty?", that is another matter.  Halflings can hide behind an ally, and attack from hidden that way.  Sure.... that does not mean it will always work if being closely watched. Even if it does work, it does not mean it will always work if you try it multiple times.     OTOH, I have no issue with you hiding behind one ally, then trying to 'stealth' over behind a different ally/piece of cover.... which I would think would make it easier to gain advantage on a repeatable basis.
#7 jaelis Apr 07, 2015 7:44:37	So about that... there's a little fuzziness about hiding and getting advantage that has been bugging me.   So the halfling can try to hide behind an ally, as we know. But there is some DM lattitude about that what that means if the opponent plainly saw the halfling step behind the ally. Like coredump says, a lot of people wouldn't let you get advantage that way turn after turn, in part because it seems unreasonable that the opponent would somehow keep falling for the same obvious trick. And the DM has that lattitude because the hiding rules say that when you come out of hiding to make an attack you are seen, and the DM has to decide what that means in a given case. If the opponent is certain where you are an what you will do, it's reasonable IMO to expect them to react quickly as soon as you appear, and thus deny you advantage.   But what if the halfling just plain doesn't come out from hiding, but shoots through the cover provided by the ally. He takes the penalty, but it seems like the rule granting advantage to an unseen attacker would simply work. Even if the opponent knows exactly where the halfling is, presumably he can't see the halfling (assuming the halfling's Stealth check succeeded.) So does that sound right? The halfling can be essentially certain to get advantage on the attack if he's willing to take the cover penalty?
#8 WilliamCQ Apr 07, 2015 7:57:25	jaelis wrote:
(Reply to #7) Macv12	jaelis wrote:
#10 mellored Apr 07, 2015 8:32:08	jaelis wrote:
#11 mellored Apr 07, 2015 8:38:43	Macv12 wrote:
#12 jaelis Apr 07, 2015 8:40:38	Macv12 wrote:
#13 Noctaem Apr 07, 2015 9:09:08	WilliamCQ wrote:
(Reply to #11) Macv12	mellored wrote:
#15 mellored Apr 07, 2015 9:53:40	Macv12 wrote:
#16 OoftaMeg Apr 07, 2015 10:54:19	What's the most fun and interesting for your table?     Some people just want to sit in the same spot round after round getting advantage.   Other people would find that annoying (especially when the bad guys do it to them) and boring.   Do what makes sense for your group.  I personally like the rogue running around, ducking behind cover and popping up in unexpected locations.  It's more fun and feels less artificial to me.   So if you're playing a rogue ask your DM.  If you're DMing ask your players or try different styles and see what works better.
(Reply to #16) Lucas_Blackstone	I think part of the problem people have is that they picture it all wrong. The ally being hidden behind isn't standing still, and the rogue isn't doing the same exact thing over and over in game. The D&D system represents something more then just what would be happening on a map. Most combatants in a melee are moving most of the time, circling each other, ducking and weaving, and trying to dodge blows even if they didn't " use the dodge action ". Multiple blows are exchanged in a 6 second period. Not robots walking up to each other. Taking one swing. Then counting away the other 4 seconds until they can take a turn again. Taking these things into account, the rogue and their ally would only be repeating the same thing visually if the players really demanded that it was what their characters were doing.
#18 Danny_Montanny Apr 09, 2015 5:38:44	Lucas_Blackstone wrote:
#19 WilliamCQ Apr 09, 2015 6:41:22	How do you then explain cinematically Hide in Plain Sight, see SRD:Assassin, and other supernatural abilities (part of special abilities) ? The former isntT part of 5e but it's still D&D. My point is that a feature is active all the time no matter how difficult the situation unless it's specified otherwise.
(Reply to #19) OoftaMeg	WilliamCQ wrote:
#21 jaelis Apr 09, 2015 7:43:52	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #19) Macv12	WilliamCQ wrote:
(Reply to #17) Coredump00	Lucas_Blackstone wrote:
(Reply to #18) Coredump00	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#25 Danny_Montanny Apr 09, 2015 10:24:55	If you didn't see him before and you don't see him after. Are you even sure he's there? Or are you more concerned fighting for your life against the guy swinging the axe.   If he stabbed you in the kidney, it doesn't matter where he goes next because you're in way too much pain to focus on anything but feeling your life bleed away.   Yes. There's an initiative order, otherwise we can't really adjudicate the combat well. People seem to forget that everything in the round is happening at the exact same time, though. The arrow flies at the most opportune time: when you overextend on your swing and narrowly miss getting your head separated from your shoulders, wrenching your back in the process. But yeah, you saw the shooter while you were at it...
(Reply to #25) OoftaMeg	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#27 Danny_Montanny Apr 09, 2015 12:46:16	Regardless, the rule is if you're unseen when you attack, you get advantage on the roll. If you're hiding, then you're considered unseen. As far as I'm concerned, the advantage the attacker has on you is because you can't see when or how the attack is coming to properly defend. Knowing someone is back there and might attack you is a far cry from being able to see them ready a shot to attack you.
#28 jaelis Apr 09, 2015 13:12:26	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #26) Lucas_Blackstone	OoftaMeg wrote:
(Reply to #27) Coredump00	So first it was: Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #30) OoftaMeg	Coredump00 wrote:
#32 mellored Apr 10, 2015 7:55:44	OoftaMeg wrote:
#33 strider13x Apr 10, 2015 8:43:25	So, my son and I bought a slew of Nerf swords and axes and maces! When my girlfriend grabs one and confronts me I know my half-pint son is there too, weapon drawn. When he takes a second to time his blow properly he gets me most every time because she stays in my face! I hate them! ;)   I compare this to the Halfling ability. They are easily ignored when someone else is engaging you. Just because you are aware of its presence doesn't mean you can effectively prevent it from hurting you. And again, the Halfling has to make a roll to Hide, I would apply Disadvantage to the Hide check if I felt the need to.
(Reply to #33) Coredump00	strider13x wrote:
(Reply to #32) Coredump00	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #35) Lucas_Blackstone	Coredump00 wrote:
#37 mellored Apr 10, 2015 10:27:10	Coredump00 wrote: