A quarter staff in one hand, a shield in the other- two attacks via feat with bonus action plus opportunity attacks against enemies that move adjacent. Is this fine or does the quarter staff have to be held in both hands for this feat to work?
The quaterstaff doesn't work with Polearm Master OA because when the creature enter your reach of 5 feet from 10 feet away, its out of range to be attacked since OA interrupt movement and it does not have the reach poperty to reach that far. It was obviously added by error since during playtest it was not one of the weapon allowed to perform the OA and it has already been reported for errata.
For the attack as a bonus action using the opposite end it should work even if you have a shield, since neither the quaterstaff nor Polearm Master does require two hands to use.
Plaguescarred wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
posted this in another thread, as there are about 20 threads about polearm, reach, and proc'ing the OA, these are my thoughts, i hope they help or add something.
a players reach as a medium size character is 5' opertunity attack in this instance proc's when an enemy comes with his reach, or 5'
weapons with reach, when attacking, can gain 5' more reach. so the when attack doesn't apply to the second bullet point until the character would be attacking, which is after the enemy has enteres the 5' reach to proc the oppertunity attack.
people in other threads argue that a reach weapon always has 5' extra reach,so the oppertunity attack proc's at 10'. i suppose it's up to how you want ot read it, english rules be damned. i am on the side that gaining an attack from this feat when no other way it could happen is powerful enough at 5' itself, and that acting like you always have your spear extended to 10' is silly. but like i said some people think that because an attack is proc'ed then the 10' would count, which means it is a catch-22 circle, and not just a step by step rule.
so much arguing has happened over this one reach rule that i would suggest anyone to figure out how they want to play it and just do that, because based on the other threads, nothing is being resolved other then talking about how the rules work in many different way that result in the same thinking. meaning people have 40 examples for oe way, and 40 for the other, and just cyclicly argue about it.
silentdante wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
silentdante wrote:
RCanine wrote:
The worst part about is, if a player takes it for the quarterstaff and it gets changed to not work with quarterstaff, if they are already level 5 they can't swap it out. It becomes a dead feat. Hopefully there will be rules for AL players to swap out feats that have been heavily changed in an errata.
shivafang wrote:
silentdante wrote:
RCanine wrote:
shivafang wrote:
It has nothing to do with grid, a space within 5 feet or 10 feet of you is same wether you use a grid or not. Spells works fine using AoE wether you play with a grid or not, its a matter of distance and positioning.
EDIT and if reach was passive (reach 10 feet), then entering a Polearm Master's reach would also leave it unable to attack because the creature would be 15 feet away when interrupted during movement, and thus out of range. But its not, since the property is pretty clear it adds 5 feet when you attack with it.
Plaguescarred wrote:
shivafang wrote:
shivafang wrote:
While I think your idea that the rules would allow an enemy to provoke an OA you could not take is ridiculous, more material is this quote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Where are people getting the idea that the opportunity attack granted by Polearm Master occurs before you can reach it?
The only place I can find opportunity attacks occurring before the triggering event is in the specific case of an OA triggered by moving out of reach.
Captain_Kobold wrote:
silentdante wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
If it was not interrupting movement, there would be no need to say you can keep enemies at bay. You keep them at bay because you attack them before they close on you!
Polearm Master: You can keep your enemies at bay with reach weapons.
The only thing the feat Polearm Master change with regards to how opportunity attack operate is how they are provoked, by entering instead of leaving reach. Its otherwise an opportuntiy attack for all intent and purposes.
shivafang wrote:
Edit: I can’t delete this post anymore, so leaving it like this instead.
Overpromises wrote:
silentdante wrote:
reddaemon wrote:
shivafang wrote:
silentdante wrote:
reddaemon wrote:
silentdante wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
silentdante wrote:
Why is this confusing?
Attack when they enter your reach.
If its a quarterstaff, you attack when they are within 5 feet. If you can stop them in their tracks, they end next to you... we call that 5 feet away. You dont get to knock them back.
For weapons with reach, you hit them when there is one open square between you and them.
If you rule that you only get extra reach during attacks, then the enemy gets hit when its next to you.
In all cases, this attack occurs before the monster can wind up in an adjacent square and attack you.
As for when reach occurs... during attacks or at all times... well then we just need a ruling on that.
RCanine wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
silentdante wrote:
Tgis opportunity atta k has a comoletely different trigger and mechanic than that for when enemies leave your reach.
Plaguescarred wrote:
RCanine wrote:
How is this even a discussion?
Specific beats general.
The specific rule is the feat, which specifically lists the staff as a weapon you can use to do its thing. I see literally no possibility that the feat was designed without the intent to allow staff users to use it.
silentdante wrote:
They're definately not reversed, that would imply that Polearm Master stops you from makng OAs as normal. No, it's not changing "leave" to "enter", it'd change "leave" to "leave or enter".
Yunru wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Plaguescarred wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Foe tries to moves close (From 10' to 5'). You take a reaction to poke him in the face with your weapon (One of those listed). He stops in his tracks (10 feet away, since that's where he was when he started) and reconsiders his action. Reaction over, play continues. This isn't a very difficult thing to think about.
Quit worrying about the wording. It's all plainly writen out. Means what it says, says what it means. (Thanks Popeye for that one!)
Suzume_Stjohn wrote:
You are correct in that interupting doesn't reverse time. If he's moving within reach, as he is required to do as per the feat, then he is within reach. What happens after the attack is just the target finishing its turn. The reaction 'stops time', it doesn't reverse it. You don't even stop the movement (Baring other abilities and such, or it being dead), since the target can still finish the rest of its allowed movement as it finishes its turn.
The feat is very specific in what it does. The only feasible arguement isn't if it works, it is only if the attack occurs between 15' -> 10', or 10' -> 5'. And most everyone agree's that it is the 10' -> 5' version.
.
Just to state: "Keeping at bay" is not a rule, it's flavor and doesn't make sense as an argument. Just getting an attack is enough to satisfy the keeping at bay flavor. Threat of injury is enough for most intelligent creatures, and if your attack is enough to kill it you quite effectively kept it from getting to you.
How I see it:
Perhaps instead of dichotomies, we start with transition states. To use an older parlance of another game, the movement between reach states has been added to the stack, and the OA interrupts the movement after the action has been initiated (entering/leaving reach) but before the movement has resolved (in reach/out of reach). OA doesn't trigger on which state they are in, but that they are changing their reach state. The standard rules for OAs is that they do not stop movement. A creature may continue to move after being attacked. As such, I'd take that to mean that after the OA, the target is now in the space they were trying to enter when the OA resolved, though they may be dead on arrival. At what physical point? Pick you size of Zeno's arrow, and go with it. In the world of 5' squares, your moving into a square starts an OA, you suffer its effects, and end up in that square. In a more granular world, you can specify which plank-length of distance the OA occurs - but no further than your reach.
So what does Polearm Master do? With the right weapons. you can make an OA on a target entering or leaving reach, not just leaving reach. Your strike happens before they finish their move into your reach, and any effects that resolve on their being in that space, including possibly being able to reach you to attack.
Where we get into strangeness is with the Sentinel feat. Your OA stops movement. I do not have the rules in front of me: Does it specifically say it prevents movement, or prevents further movement? Are they supposed to stay within your reach after the OA? In the normal case, stay-in-reach means the triggering movement is canceled - the initiating action results in 0 change, or the default is fall back to origin. If they do not stay in reach, then the base result is trigger finish - they make it to the space they were attempting to enter before being locked down. Now all of this is operating in relation to the motion of the target of the OA - fail back, or fail forward. Another possibility that this needs resolved in relation to the OA enactor - if Sentinel states they remain in reach after the OA, then the end of movement must be within reach of the OA enactor - the target failing forward on an incoming towards an polearm master, and failing to move away in all cases.
RCanine wrote:
My quote formatting is messed up in the 2nd half and I can't seem to fix it. My responces to quotes are in bold
silentdante wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Keen_Man wrote:
As I'm not sure if this was mentioned, because I got tired of the round and round at post 37-ish.
"You can rarely move heedlessly past your foes without putting yourself in danger, doing so provokes an oportunity attack."
The general rule is that an oportunity attack can be made when the target moves out of your reach. Nowhere does it say it's the only way to do so. They are not mutually exclusive. An attack made against a creature moving out of your reach is an opportunity attack. An opportunity attack is not an attack made against a creature moving out of your reach. One is a condition of the other, and one defines it. As such the specific rule for Polearm Master sets the condition (a creature enters your reach) in which an opportunity attack (an attack provoked by a creature puting itself in danger) can be met.
Disengaging would not provoke the attack and allow you enter the creature's reach as normal. As would teleporting inside the creatures reach. Being moved past the creature, within 10' if wielding a reach weapon, without using your movement, action, or reaction would not provoke the attack either.
My biggest confusion with the feat isn't the opportunity attack. It's with not being able to make the bonus action attack with a pike. Why the heck not? Because it's piercing? You're not swinging it in an arc so you won't be able to backswing with the butt end?
shivafang wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Danny_Montanny wrote:
Valheru_Blade wrote:
Keen_Man wrote:
shivafang wrote:
RCanine wrote:
shivafang wrote:
reddaemon wrote:
It also uses your reaction despite the feat not saying so, yet i don't anyone arguing against it.
It also uses your reaction despite the feat not saying so, yet i don't anyone arguing against it.
Enters and entered are two different things. When I'm in the process of getting into your house through a door I'm entering or when he enters. After I'm past the door I've entered. It can easily be interpreted as on the threshold of your reach but not fully in it. Whether you shuffle a inch back right the attack or they stagger a inch back they have not fully entered the reach when the feat triggers.
Im at work so I can confirm the wording is it as they enter or after they have entered.
I can't believe this is a matter of debate, this appears pretty simple.
Polearm Master bullet #2 states "While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach." So with a glaive, halberd, or pike (all reach weapons), you get to make the opportunity attack when the foe reaches 10' from you, and with a quarterstaff, you get to make the opportunity attack when the reach reaches 5' from you, i.e., adjacent. The attack happens as the foe enters that space, whether it is 10' away or 5' away (i.e., adjacent). It is an interrupt, so it happens before they get to make an attack from fully entering that space, but notably opportunity attacks do not stop movement (without the Sentinel feat), so the foe can keep on moving if desired, stop and attack, or whatever. What is so complicated about this?
Now the one "issue" I have with feat is quarterstaff use under bullet #1. All the other weapons are two-handed and enable the bonus action extra attack. Similarly, dual-wielding uses a bonus action for an extra attack. In each case, both hands are occupied by weapons. I suspect it was a glitch to allow quarterstaff use in this case without also specifying that the quarterstaff must be wielded two-handed, and I suspect this will eventually get errata'd. The first bullet may even get similarly errata'd.
Guest703856308 wrote:
shivafang wrote:
shivafang wrote:
The feat does not need to be errata'd, it's usage just isn't clear on the face of it. Quarterstaff was not included in this portion of the Feat during Alpha and I specifically gave feedback on that fact.
The Reach property only grants you reach while you are attacking, so your reach for triggering opportunity attacks is still 5 feet. When someone attempts to leave your reach you get an attack just before they leave your reach. Similarly, with this feat, when someone attempts to enter your reach you get an opportunity attack just before they enter it. If you are wielding a weapon with the Reach property you can reach them with that attack, but a quarterstaff cannot. (this is consistent with how the reach property worked in 4e)
On the face of it, the quarterstaff seems like a worthless inclusion - unless you consider the fact that Staves are the only weapon on this list that most spellcasters can use. Combine this Feat with the Warcaster Feat and you can replace that triggered opportunity attack with a single target spell when someone enters your reach.
This combo is the crux of the Polelock build where you use the opportunity attack to Eldritch Blast the enemy, combining it with Repelling Blast to knock them away from you (it's also nice because both attacks count as coming from your Pact weapon if you chose that feature, so Lifedrinker applies to both hits).
TLDR: Look at the Polearm Master feat - which weapon can most casters use? Now look at the Warcaster feat.
Dastion wrote:
shamurai7 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
FWIW Just for comparison's sake, its also how Polearm Gamble (an ability similar to Polearm Master) worked in 4E, which they had to make an FAQ to clarify.
Where is the target of your attack when you make an opportunity attack because of Polearm Gamble?An opportunity attack interrupts the action that triggers it, so when you make the opportunity attack, the target is in the square it's leaving, assuming that square is within your melee reach.
Dastion wrote:
Barring a clarification by an official rules source, I think this argument is circling the beating-a-dead-horse-drain but I would like to offer one little analogy.
I know that real life has nothing to do with game rules but let's say that I have a rule that I get to slap anyone who enters my house if they enter my house and have a different opinion than mine (so basically everybody).
When do I get to slap them? At the door? As they are crossing my threshold? Once they have at least one foot in my house? I would say the latter. I have to wait until they've actually entered my house.
Which is why I think you only get the attack when someone enters the space adjacent to you (less than 5 ft if not using a grid). Until they do, they haven't entered my threatened reach (assuming I have 5 ft reach).
Danny_Montanny wrote:
Dastion wrote:
Danny_Montanny wrote:
Dastion wrote:
Jeremy Crawford confirmed on twitter that a polearm reach only applies when you attack with it; (i've asked more Qs about this subject, answers TBA)
@Plaguescarred I notice people have different interpretation, does polearm increase reach always or only when attacking with it?
@JeremyECrawford The reach property applies only when you attack with a weapon. Any use beyond that is up to the DM.
Plaguescarred wrote:
Guest703856308 wrote:
Looking through my PHB on the weapons list it says a quarterstaff is a versatile weapon. It doesn't mention reach.
Polearm MasteryPg.168
You can keep enemies at bay with reach weapons. You gain the following benefits:
When you take an Attack action and attack only with a glaive,halberd or quarterstaff you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. The weapon's damage for this attack is a d4 and the attack deals bludgeoning damage.
While you are weilding a glaive,halberd,pike or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity from you when they enter your reach.
Diceman65 wrote:
shivafang wrote:
Specific vs General want that Polearm Master only specifically deviate from normal OA by how its provoked (entering instead of leaving reach) and should otherwise be subject to all rules governing opportunity attack that it doesn't specifically address differently.
If you only interpret what Polearm Master says about opportunity attack as RAW, then it doesn't use a reaction and has unlimited use, yet i don't see anyone arguing for it. 
Plaguescarred wrote:
So what does "+1 - exactly" equal? "1-exactly"? :P
Yunru wrote:
Under opportunity attack it states
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack interrupts the provoking creature’s movement, occurring right before the creature leaves your reach.
This makes sense. You have to smack the creature while you can. When a creature is provoking for leaving your reach you have to interrupt it's movement because if you didn't you couldn't hit it any more.
On the other hand
While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
Would make no sense for the quarterstaff if it interrupted the movement. You can't hit a creature you can't reach. Therefore the creature gets adjacent to you before you hit it. I also think the trigger is pretty specific here - it's not "they are about to move into your reach".
I know real world logic doesn't always apply to D&D but in this case the simple, logical explanation is the one I plan on using.
Plaguescarred wrote:
I asked Jeremy Crawford this question:
@Dastion: If an AoO occurs just before the trigger, how does a Qtrstaff work with Polearm Master? Aren't they out of reach? @JeremyECrawford
His reply:
@Dastion: If an AoO occurs just before the trigger, how does a Qtrstaff work with Polearm Master? Aren't they out of reach? @JeremyECrawford
I followed up to clarify that with this feat the enemy will always have to be within your natural reach when the attack occurs:
@JeremyECrawford: @Dastion For Polearm Master to work, the provoking creature has to be within your reach, not right outside it.
Kinda nerfs the Polelock build to "not as ridiculous as it seemed but still fun", especially if the Warlock gets a melee attack.
This feat also makes a pretty decent staff fighter possible. Too bad you can't finesse it without being a Monk 
Jeremy Crawford answered on twitter, with a more open approach towards it, leaving both interpretation viable to my grand surprise;
@JeremyECrawford The Polearm Master attack is in response to a creature entering your reach, so movement can be before and after it.
@Plaguescarred It mean target is out of range to be attack by a polearm master quaterstaff since it has no reach property?
@JeremyECrawford When a creature steps within 5 feet of you, you can whack it with your quarterstaff if you have that feat.
More tweets from Jeremy Crawford seems to imply it in fact does not interrupt movement;
@Plaguescarred It doesnt interrupt movement being an opportunity attack?
@JeremyECrawford It is interrupting any further movement the target might have, after it is within your reach.
@Plaguescarred so it works differently than a normal OA then, which interurpt before leaving your reach (otherwise target would be out)
@Plaguescarred And thus not interurpting creature 'entering your reach'', more reacting after they did.
shivafang wrote:
Diceman65 wrote:
I'm still conversing with Jeremy , but i start to think he interpret reach property to add even when not attacking, despite having answered originally it only added when attacking;
@JeremyECrawford On the grid, the target is adjacent if you're using a quarterstaff, but 5 feet away with the other PM weapons.
@JeremyECrawford To be clear, the word "interrupt" has no special meaning in the game. It's used to clarify timing: "X happens before Y."
So essentially what you would think it'd do. A guy wonders too close to you and you smack him so long as he's in range of your weapon. Ask him the reasoning why the pike isn't listed as a weapon you can use to get the bonus action attack! 
Plaguescarred wrote:
Like Mike Mearls, Jeremy Crawford seem to think reach weapon extend OA provoking range;
@Plaguescarred Trying to get where yur coming from leave Reg OA with halberd when leaving your reach, creature is adjacent or 10 ft away?
@Plaguescarred Why distance discrepency OA provoke base on weapon? You said earlier reach weapon dont increase if not attacking? #Confuse
@JeremyECrawford Yes, OA (an attack) is based on your reach with the weapon you're using.
Plaguescarred wrote:
Danny_Montanny wrote:
The way I see it, this entire debate could be solved with one simple word being added to the Opportunity attack section:
Instead of saying:
"You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach"
Simply rewording it to:
"You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see begins to move out of your reach"
This simple change, while leaveing Polearm master as:
"While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach."
With this wording change, both abilities become clearly defined as they were intended to work. In both scenarios above, the opportunity attack would clearly happen when the opponent is within an adjacent square (5' without a reach weapon) or two squares away (10' when using a reach weapon). That would be when the opportunity attack occurs. Then adding Sentinel on top, that is the also the square that their movement would be halted in as well. This way the rules would be the same whether the creature was advancing or retreating.
I honestly believe that is the way the rules are intended to work, and anyone arguing anything else is simply rules lawyering to try and exploit the intentions.
Just 8 more days and the post you necroed would have been a year old. 
DeathMutantLives wrote:
Gunndykol wrote:
Seems both abilities work perfectly fine, especially when considering the conversational nature of the ruleset, and the fact that using a grid and 5 ft movement increments is optional.
As a creature is moving into your reach, you can hit it with an OA... meaning as it's moving from a 5ft square out of reach into a 5 ft square within your reach.
As a creature is moving out of your reach, you can hit it with an OA... meaning as it's moving from a 5ft square within your reach into a 5ft square out of your reach.
Both attacks occur during movement when the creature provoking the OA is transitioning from one square to another. Assuming you're even using an optional grid.
It's not as though the creature, moving 5 ft from out of reach into reach uses its full 5 ft movement before the OA triggers... the OA literally interrupts the movement, meaning it triggers during the movement. So if it helps you resolve it, the creature moves 2.5 ft, and is currently occupying a 5 ft space in between two squares of a grid, so it's both in a square that is in reach, and in a square that is out of reach.
If you're not using a grid, it's even easier:
As a creature is moving into your reach, you can hit it with an OA with Polearm Master.
As a creature is moving out of your reach, you can hit it with an OA with a standard OA.
Is this really a debate?
It really shouldn't be, but I'm sure some people think it is.
Bloodscythe wrote: