You can normally conjure any manner of weapon you desire in the moment and be proficient. So one fight you decide you want a greatsword. Another you go for a polearm. Another a whip. Yadda yadda. Straight forward. No problem.
But you can also choose to ritually bond an actual magic weapon to become your pact blade. You can only do this to one real weepon at a time. Got it. But now, if you have a weapon bonded in this way, does this preclude you from conjuring any other kind of temporary weapon as you could before?
What are your thoughts? How would you rule?
When you transform a magic weapon into your pact weapon, "it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter." So yes, it precludes you from conjuring any other kind of weapon as you could before. (Until you break the bond)
I think it would be pretty nice if there were a special pact weapon magic item that you could bond to and then summon it in the form of whatever weapon you wanted. And it would still have it's magic properties.
But otherwise, you can just carry your magic sword like normal and summon a glaive or whatever when that's what you want.
I get that. I'm going for "how would you rule?". I take it you're answering with "cuz RAW!"
Yet when your player comes to you and says he is on the fence with bonding a weapon, because it takes away one of the coolest aspects of the class ability (arguably the weakest of the three pacts), you say what? "Tough?" Do you point and laugh and tell him he should have taken Tome like everyone else who plays a warlock?
Me, I'd give him that special magic pact weapon.
But I wouldn't let him take any old magic weapon and let it transform, that seems too good to me.
I wondered the same thing when reading over Pact of the Blade. How I would rule would probably depend on the magic item in question. A generic +1 sword can be morphed into a +1 polearm or a +1 dagger. A sentient weapon is probably not going to be as amenable to change, unless specifically designed to do so.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Me?: Right now I'm inclined to allow him to have the one "real" weapon bonded as a pact weapon. But also be able to conjure "generic" pact weapons as it suited him. These would be just like a normal temporary pact weapon, not benefiting from whatever features or properties his real pact weapon might have. But this way he gets to retain the flexibility of being able to play with weapon choice for various encounters, or alternately bring out his real pact blade when it suits him.
I hope that is more clear as to the quandary I'm having.
FYI, sandvirm, sentient and/or artifact weapons cannot normally be bonded as a pact blade.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Have you read the Stormlight Archive? I love the summoned shardblades and that Kaladin can have his weapon be anything he wants it to be. I'm inclined to just have the magical weapon shapechange to whatever the witch wants it to be, assuming the magical weapon doesn't require a feature like "has to be a slashing weapon".
Rule As Fun. Just tell a good story.
sandvirm wrote:
jaelis wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
If I was the DM, I'd let him summon the magic weapon in whatever form that would be allowed for that magic weapon.
So, a generic +2 sword could be summoned as any type of weapon and still be +2.
If the magic weapon had to be 'any sword', or 'any slashing weapon', then I'd let him summon the weapon as any weapon of those types.
If the magic weapon said 'warhammer', then he could only summon it as a warhammer. Same for any specific weapon.
The reason I'd rule this way is to preserve a cool aspect of a fairly weak option, without risking unintended and unforseen weapon/magic combinations.
Oh, and it makes sense. : )
Your player will be happy, and you would be in no danger of something bad happening to your campaign from this decision.
Since I'm the only one who seems to think letting any weapon change form is too good:
I'm in the habit of giving out weaker weapons at first, like daggers, handaxes and such. Since that gives the party tools to handle monsters that need magic weapons, but without much impacting their normal combat ability. I don't feel like that is so uncommon, it seems like many published low-level adventures do something similar.
If the PB warlock can turn that +1 dagger into whatever he wants, then that defeats my strategy. And what's more, I think the other players would feel like they ought to get "real" weapons too.
jaelis wrote:
AndrewJO wrote:
durntaur wrote:
durntaur wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
So on the other side of the coin, I'm a DM who probably wouldn't allow the shapechanging of a weapon.
Partially I agree that it doesn't seem (IMO) to be the intent of the rules, but also because the warlock still gains proficiency with it. It allows them to take the +1 dagger the party found and turn it into a +1 greatsword. Game breaking? No, but it doesn't sit right with me. A fighter can't change the +1 long sword he found because he wants a +1 rapier for the Finess property...
Plus, the other benefits of a pact sword may still be important. For example, it also gives the warlock the ability to prevent the weapon from ever being stolen (since it disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more.) They can be be armed in a city which prohibits weapons to be openly carried.
And you're not breaking the character by not granting this 'extra'. If anything, the warlock may now have a reason to consider two weapon fighting.
Avross wrote:
I seriously doubt I would allow him to bond a +1 longsword, and then let him summon a +1 whateverhefeelslike. But I would probably allow him to summon a generic whateverhefeelslike. Cuz...why not. I don't see it being that big of a deal.
Looking forward... what I *might* do is allow him to use a magical weapon as the material component in a (newly invented) Warlock ritual. The ritual consumes the magic weapon, but imbues his summoned pact weapon with magical properties.
Ideas:
1) A +1 weapon and a bunch of difficult/expensive components...allows for +1 pact weapons
2) A +2 weapon and cheap components...allows for +1 pact weapons
3) A Flametongue and some components allows for a +1 pact weapon that has a random special property when summoned. (cuz... fun for the DM too)
4) This ritual is actually binding a fiend/spirit/angel/whatever to act as your pact weapon.... thus your pact weapon becomes sentient.
5) The 'altered' weapon forms are unstable. After X summonings of a different form, each further summoning of a different form has a 5/10/etc% chance of losing the weapon. (Thus making the altered forms good for 'emergencies') Could have the X refresh after a certain amount of time, or perhaps if you 'renew' the ritual. (At a certain spot, or certain time, or with certain components...)
I am sure folks can think of other (likely better) ideas....
I'd effectively allow him to treat his weapon bond as a bag.
ie - he can weapon bond as many weapons as he wants, and when he summons a weapon, he can choose either one of his bonded magic weapons or any nonmagic weapon.
Saeviomagy wrote:
I am ruling that the benefit of being able to proficiently use any magic weapon you might find, and also get to use it with your pact blade specific features, is worth the tradeoff of not being able to change your pact blade's shape anymore - especially since I think the shape-changing is a "ribbon" anyways.
durntaur wrote:
I think being able to shunt a magical weapons hoard of unlimited size to an extradimensional space that is inaccessible to just about all (if not all) other beings is a great boon.
durntaur wrote:
I like your idea of having a magic weapon bonded and the generic summon weapon, but only have one accesable at a time. After a short or long rest the warlock can refocus of which weapon they want to able to summon. that would keep it as close to the original feature, but give it a bit versatility. If the warlock wants to always have a magic weapon available they would have to carry it like everyone else. 
The rules as written for bonding magic weapons pact blades look fine to me. Take a look at what the warlock can do:
- Proficiency with any magic weapon they choose. For a class whose weapon list starts and ends with "simple weapons" this is awesome.
- The ability to summon their magic weapon of choice at will. They're impossible to disarm, and their magic weapon never gets lost or stolen.
- The ability to perfectly hide their magic weapon and appear to be unarmed when searched. (Then arm themselves afterward -- see above.)
- For the unscrupulous, the power to sell the same magic weapon to one dupe after another (and leave town in a hurry) over and over again!
For all that, giving up the ability to summon different types of weapons isn't a large price to pay.
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
Actually, I've seen a number of good builds for Bladelocks using STR weapons. There's quite a bit more feat support for those, as well. As much as I enjoy my finesse Bladelock, I'm thinking of playing a Heavy/Polearm Bladelock next time around, using the Polearm Master, Sentinel, and Great Weapon Master feats. The Polearm feat makes up for the lack of two weapon fighting quite nicely. I'll probably MC into Paladin for some heavy armor, fighting style, and smiting action.
Currently I'm running a Bladelock with a magic rapier pact blade, and I don't miss the ability to switch weapons one bit. As you saiy, there are very few good finesse weapons to choose from; if I've already got the best one (and it's got a +1 magic bonus) why would I want anything different anyway?
But I'd disagree about the importance of appearing unarmed. On several occasions it's been useful to convince a suspicious guard/gatekeeper that I'm unarmed in order to gain entry where no weapons were allowed, then summon the pact blade once I got in.