Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kuro13th Aug 11, 2014 11:01:42	Hi, I'm about to start a game with friends in the new 5th edition and I want to make a paladin with a vengeful oath. I know the two other oath generally links you to a god, wether it's an active god of good and justice or an ancient cosmic power of nature and life. The thing is, I see nowhere in the text that a vengeful paladin needs to draw his power from a god, the sacred nature and the strong will he puts in his oath seem to be sufficient alone to draw out his divine magic. Since the edition is new and the subject is unclear, my DM can't answer for sure to my question. So here I am: Is a paladin following a vengeful oath obliged to pledge it in front of a chosen diety, or can he go without a god carried only by the sacred nature of his oath?   thank you very much for your answers!
#2 mellored Aug 11, 2014 11:04:32	Yes, he can go without a god.   Though a god is suggested.
#3 Londoner78 Sep 25, 2014 7:08:38	So if you don't take a God, then when a spell or action says you call on your deity to do something, you can't because you have no God. Right? A good DM will see that and keep you in character.
#4 Captain_Kobold Sep 25, 2014 7:53:26	No paladins, whatever their oath have to worship a deity.   If a spell or action says that you call upon your deity, a paladin without one would probably call upon whoever they swore their oath to or about.   Just roleplay it however you think your character would handle it.
#5 Yunru Sep 25, 2014 8:52:10	What's that? You want to stick a bunch of Vengence Paladins in a mech?
#6 GladiusLegis Sep 25, 2014 8:54:39	Unlike Clerics, Paladins get their powers from the sacred weight of their Oaths, not the gods themselves. This is regardless of Oath. Which means Paladins don't have to worship a god at all, although most coincidentally do.
#7 Chaosmancer Sep 25, 2014 11:48:55	Yea, I was allowing my Vengeance Paladin to go without a diety. Then we got a Warlock with a Great Old One pact, realizing Cthulhu was an option he requested to worship the Great Cthulhu, I said sure (with the understanding that this was flavor only) and informed him that the Great Cthulhu did not care if he worshipped him.   Haven't seen the guy in play yet (game just started and he had to miss last session to watch his kid)  but I forsee great things in the future.
#8 Mechatarrasque Sep 25, 2014 12:31:11	If you get a chance, Ian C. Esslemont's books set in the Malazan universe tend to focus on the Crimson Guard, who are oath empowered, but not connected to any god.  It might give you some ideas on how to reflavor the "call on the gods" bit for paladins, since the Guard can call on the spirits of the dead guard members.  The most recent book, Assail, reveals the horrific cost of making the oath, but you don't have to borrow everything.....
#9 Illithidbix Sep 25, 2014 17:11:59	It's the DM and their World's cosmology in particular cases but by my interpreation not every paladin is in service of a deity. In the description it notes the power of a paladin comes form their Oath, which may or may not be sworn before a deity.   Some worlds have very involved gods, others have distant ones Some worlds might not have any deities at all and Clerics and Paladins draw upon abstract concepts, or the gesalt conciousness of a culture/belief system/humanity.   One of my favourite concepts is a paladin of a dead god, the last bearer of it's Holy Name, and this is what gives the paladin his power.   It's a good opportunity to work with the DM and help flesh out the world. Fundementally if your DM wants all Paladins to have gods they serve, work with them with it.
#10 belowyn Sep 29, 2014 4:07:42	But, for a Pally2/Something else multiclass, when he has not taken any wows, what standards should one hold him to? None? The ones he would have taken if he had continued as Paladin?   Also, how strict are most people about gods and FR (for example for Adventure League). Can one do something other then the main gods if one create a good backstory, or will people shut down a build like that?
#11 Vulf Jul 28, 2015 15:42:31	There have been multiple non-specific deity Paladins/Clerics since at least 3rd edition.   You can worship a Pantheon of Gods, and call on different ones at different times.   Or worship an Ideal, such as Freedom, Joy, or Justice!   My Paladin was called upon by the ancient guardian spirits of the land to protect the people. The spirits of his ancestors are among those that give him his power.