Passive Intelligence (Investigation)

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

LordMorin

Mar 21, 2015 9:49:39

  At now point in the rules, except in two feats, can I find any rules concerning a Passive Intelligence (Investigation) check. Does this mean that only by taking the Observation feat or the Dungeon Delver feat that you gain this passive?

 

  Currently, in my campaign, I am using the ruling that the only way to get a Passive Intelligence (Investigation ability is to take either or both these feats.

 

D u n g e o n  D e l v e r
Alert to the hidden traps and secret doors found in many
dungeons, you gain the following benefits:

• You have advantage on W isdom (Perception) and
Intelligence (Investigation) checks made to detect the
presence of secret doors.
• You have advantage on saving throws made to avoid
or resist traps.
• You have resistance to the damage dealt by traps.
• You can search for traps while traveling at a normal
pace, instead o f only at a slow pace.

 

O b s e r v a n t
Quick to notice details o f your environment, you gain
the following benefits:
• Increase your Intelligence or W isdom score by 1, to a
maximum o f 20.
• If you can see a creature’s mouth while it is speaking
a language you understand, you can interpret what it’s
saying by reading its lips.
• You have a +5 bonus to your passive Wisdom
(Perception) and passive Intelligence (Investigation)
scores.

#2

Nevvur

Mar 21, 2015 11:00:35

I wonder how one even passively investigates something. The very word suggests a systematic process requiring active effort. Of course, skills are meant to cover a variety of situations and techniques, so enough useless musing.

 

I don't recall passive intelligence (investigation) ever coming up in an AL module/public play. For my home game, I consider the passive version of both Investigation and Perception to be highly interchangeable in regard to traps. Some environmental details are subect to passive Investigation; the analytical mind (investigation) is simultaneously processing whatever information the senses (perception) are gathering. Hidden creatures are discovered by Perception only. I apply the penalty to Perception for a fast travel pace to passive investigation, as well.

#3

Kalani

Mar 21, 2015 11:08:09

I am fairly certain that Sherlock Holmes can passively investigate. He looks at you, and observes all the nuances and details of your person, from your bearing to the small speck of blood on your lapel, to the foreign hair that has fallen upon your shoulder.

(Reply to #2)

LordMorin

Nevvur wrote:
#5

Tempest_Stormwind

Mar 21, 2015 11:36:19

5e doesn't really implement passive scores with any real consistency, as you've noticed.

 

The issue is that in 5e, it's explicit: If there's no chance of failure, you don't roll a check. However, the passive scores reflect a result of 10. If you have a modifier of +5, for instance, then not declaring you're doing something means you auto-pass DC 15 results, while declaring that you are doing something introduces a ~50% chance of failure.

 

I've seen convincing arguments to do away with them altogether, and I've seen convincing arguments to extend them to three (Perception, Investigation, and Insight, the latter reflecting your ability to sense lies without asking about it. All three of these are designed to avoid DM hinting that something's going on by asking for an actual check or rolling the dice behind the screen). 

 

You'll have to come up with a solution in your own group. 

 

 

 

Kalani wrote:
#6

iserith

Mar 21, 2015 11:49:45

I think a lot of the confusion over passive checks comes down to what is actually "passive." It's the checks that are passive - in that no dice are rolled - not the fictional action. It's not radar or whatever - it's a character actively doing something with an uncertain outcome over and over and over again, typically at a cost (e.g. time) or a tradeoff (not performing another task).

 

When we look at it this way, it becomes a lot clearer.

#7

Orethalion

Mar 21, 2015 12:14:01

Kalani wrote:
#8

Orethalion

Mar 21, 2015 12:15:28

iserith wrote:
#9

iserith

Mar 21, 2015 12:18:21

Orethalion wrote:
#10

Coredump00

Mar 21, 2015 21:45:48

LordMorin wrote:
(Reply to #6)

Coredump00

iserith wrote:
#12

Coredump00

Mar 21, 2015 22:08:37

 

Perception is the ability to notice things others are likely to miss.

 

Investigation is the ability to figure out what those things do/mean and if they are important. 

 

These two abilities are often very closely related.... to do what Sherlock Holmes does, you have to be very good at both.

 

 

Walking down the path, it takes a very good perception (lets say DC 20) to even see the light footprints or the small bit of helmet over the crate, or hear the scrape of a metal....But once you do, it is trivial  (DC 0-5) to determine there is an ambush.

 

Standing in the room waiting for the Baron to meet with you, it takes a decent perception (DC 15) to notice that the 10 pegs on the wall are not all at the same height.  It takes a decent Investigation (DC 15) to figure out they trigger a secret door.

 

Walking down the corridor, it is pretty obvious (DC 5) to notice the dirt in the corners, its a pretty simple (DC 10) investigation to figure out it is rust and not just dust, it takes decent perception (DC 15) to find small particles of metal withing the rust. It takes a very good investigation (DC 20-25) to determine that the metal is small bits of quality steel, most likely from good swords.... possibly a rust monster nearby.

 

 

 

#13

iserith

Mar 22, 2015 5:48:25

Coredump00 wrote:
#14

Orethalion

Mar 22, 2015 7:10:17

Coredump00 wrote:
#15

RenoGM

Mar 22, 2015 13:41:57

I like "passive scores" because I don't give players information on a success/failure, all or nothing scale. I tailor information based on passive perception, arcana, religion, history, etc. Let's say a hiding creature has a 15 stealth check;

  • PC 1 has a passive perception (pp) of 13 and is told "This could be a good place for an ambush."
  • PC 2 has a pp of 15, "You see movement in the underbrush to the left, probably a hiding humanoid."
  • PC 3 has a pp of 17, "There's a goblin in the underbrush readying an attack."

I do that for all sorts of things. The other night when the party came across some ruins I told them what they generally knew of the region and these ruins, then I gave some additional information to the character that was trained in history (he had the highest "passive history"). I don't ask for rolls to remember something, only rolls to "figure something out" or when recalling something in the heat of battle.