Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Psikerlord Jul 17, 2014 4:04:21	is it an action to use perception in combat? is it no action? is it tied up with another action, similar to drawing your sword and attacking, could you look for a hidden enemy and if you spot him, attack him all in one turn?
#2 iserith Jul 17, 2014 5:09:01	One doesn't "use perception." A character takes an action and that action may or may not call for a Wisdom (Perception) check such as Searching (page 72).
#3 UYtrdennis Jul 17, 2014 5:50:34	Passive Perception doesn't require an action however.
#4 Psikerlord Jul 17, 2014 7:17:34	so there is a goblin hiding in bushes. I want to attack him. do I use an action to spot him, or not, what do you think?
#5 iserith Jul 17, 2014 7:23:34	If he is hidden, he has already beaten your passive Perception. As such, you will need to search for him which takes an action and potentially a Wisdom (Perception) check provided his hidden condition doesn't change as a result of your movement (such as if you moved behind the bush and he no longer has cover). See Page 72.
#6 RadperT Jul 25, 2014 8:10:02	Intelligence (Investigation) can be used to "deduce the location of a hidden object" (Basic Rules 0.1, p. 61).  I have the impression that if you're going to burn one of your actions to try to spot a hidden creature, you can use your brains to figure it out!  I don't remember where I heard it, though, and when I went to the Starter Set run-through (a few seconds short of 20 minutes in), I definitely saw Greg Bilsland tell a player to roll an active Perception check (yes, he said "wisdom perception," but how long are we going to keep doing that?).  Unless I were totally stymied, though, what I would do in that situation is shoot or throw (or cast) at the location were I thought the creature was, which is often going to be where you last saw the creature.  Disadvantage sucks, but at least it doesn't get any worse with range….
#7 Psikerlord Jul 25, 2014 20:10:51	I think I approached my initial question backwards. if you are fighting a guy, and he then tries ti hide, I would require the hider to make a stealth check against the PCs perception check: a straight up contest. if he manages to hide, then the pc needs to make a perception or investigation check to find him (burning an action). I think thats quite balanced and accords with the rules. cheers all, thanks for your replies.
#8 Sands666 Jul 25, 2014 20:26:57	Or if he succeeds at hiding in combat, then the opponent will know generally where he could be. He could then take a shot at the hiding character but at disadvantage to attack. Still could be a hit.    Also, I've decided that if you're a halfling and you're hiding behind a medium creature, that if someone attempts to hit you blindly with a ranged attack, that there's a chance that the person you're hiding behind may get hit if they miss attacking the halfling. The opponent attacks the hiding creature with disadvantage and then if they miss I'll roll again with disadvantage to see if they hit the meat shield.
#9 E-Tallitnics Jul 25, 2014 21:03:26	Psikerlord wrote:
#10 Psikerlord Jul 26, 2014 19:43:47	Sands666 wrote:
#11 Archon007 Jul 26, 2014 23:29:14	The player or NPC makes a stealth check vs passive perception. If he succeds then he is hidden. If the other combatant wants to find them they need to use an action to make an active perception check.
#12 Psikerlord Jul 27, 2014 1:55:45	Nope, when actively keeping watch (as you would be in combat) you use a rolled perception, not passive. Its a classic contest.
#13 Kazadvorn Jul 27, 2014 6:55:34	Part of the problem here is that there is 'hidden' and 'Hidden', so to speak. If you enter an area and you suspect that there may be a goblin hiding somewhere, then I guess that would require an Action to use a Perception Check to discover any hidden foes.   But now you have another situation entirely... You're fighting a group of goblins, and one decides to duck into a hedgerow and attempt to hide. Even if the goblin is successful, you know that he's hiding somewere in that clump of bushes. (A quick scan of the basic rules would seem to indicate that this would indeed require an opposed roll by the goblin vs. the PC to actually hide.)   In that case, I might be tempted - as a DM - to allow the player to use a 'bonus action' to try to spot the goblin while advancing towards the bushes with the intent of attacking the goblin hiding there.
#14 Psikerlord Jul 27, 2014 15:53:42	Agree the above would also work for me.