Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 BeardWizard Dec 12, 2014 14:08:15	Before I begin, I didnt think this was a simple question so I did not post this in the "ask a simple question..." thread.   What are the limitations of the conditions Phantasmal Force may apply to a creature?   In my own personal investigation of the spell I have selected a few key sentences from the spells description that I believe are important in identifying what the capabilities of the spell are.   First, what are the limitations of the phantasm itself?   "... you create a phantasmal object, creature or other visible phenomenom... The Phantasm includes sound, temperature, and other stimuli..." (PHB 264). After reading this I believe there are just about no restrictions on the phantasm aside from the fact that what is created must be visible and no larger than a 10' cube. So I could not create the illusion of "a sense of dread", but with enough creativity you could create an image that would instill fear in the subject of the spell.   Second, what can the phantasm do to the target?   "While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interaction with the phantasm." (PHB 264) So no matter what the creature does, hears from its allies, senses from its surroundings or how ridiculous the illusion is it continues to ignore that evidence and treat the illusion as if it were real until it passes its investigation check.   So what is to stop a caster from creating a 10' cube of stone directly around a creature which stops the creature from interacting with anything but itself? Is the 10' cube of stone visible? Yes. Is your sense of touch included in the phantasm's ability to produce "other stimuli"? Most likely. Could the creature normally just walk right out of the illusion? Sure, but the creature believes the stone to be real, so why would it do that? Yes it's arms pass right through the stone as it flails about to free itself, but, it treats the stone as if it were real and disbelieves any illogical outcomes. "Looks like i'm incased in stone, but it sure feels like i'm moving, someone must be rolling me..."   So in my opinion this is some bull crap how can a second level spell emulate a 6th level flesh to stone? Hopefully someone can show me what I'm misreading or misinterpreting about the spell.   Thanks for your time.
#2 jameswilliamogle2 Dec 12, 2014 16:20:51	Yup illusions with some imaginative playing is pretty strong.
#3 ShinQuickMan Dec 12, 2014 17:43:58	Phantasmal Forse is definitely one of the stronger 2nd level spells for when you first get it. It's one of the few spells that target INT, and, as described in the OP, it has potential to lock down enemies, forcing them to waste turns on whats likely their worst save. When used in such a way, its actually very similar to hold person: it keeps a single enemy from using actions so long as they fail their save/check, trading the paralyzed condition for a stronger save and an expanded list of targets. It loses steam at later levels; lots of monsters are too big to be instantly shut in the hypothetical phantasmal room, it competes with other concentration spells, and a good number of late level enemies have truesight.
#4 Pandaemonius Jan 24, 2015 10:08:58	BeardWizard wrote:
#5 Undrhil Jan 25, 2015 1:00:04	My favorite is making the target think I summoned a Gelatinous Cube on them.  It makes sense (I cast magic and it's a magical creature, and those things always engulf whatever they are attacking, so why wouldn't someone summoning one of those summon it on top of the intended target?   I cast it on a flying creature once.  According to the DM, until it saved against the spell it was convinced that I had summoned the gelatinous cube and then had cast fly on it.  LoL!