Point-buy

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ZickZak

Jan 26, 2015 1:04:42

15 is the max one can buy, which IMO, puts the human variant far ahead.
+1 / +1 to ANY score means 16/16 in the best stats. Wouldn't it be better to allow for one 16 only to be buyable? That way humans can go 17/16 (+ feat) and the others 18/15 or 18/16 (sometimes the +1 is just not for what you want)

#2

Ath-kethin

Jan 26, 2015 3:19:04
Since humans get nothing else - no dark vision, no resistances, nothing - letting them start with slightly higher stats seems a reasonable compromise to me. This is the first edition of the game I have ever played (and I have played them all, and DM'd all but 4th) where humans were an appealing choice to my players.
#3

cowleymen

Jan 26, 2015 3:26:00

I will go further on Ath's point, the Variant human is my prefered version. I know numerically speaking, +1 to everything is great, but its also really bland. I tend to play that Humans are the youngest "civilized" race, and thats why they get that feat, they are still culturally diverse, and have a plethroa of possbile things to learn

#4

slumgum

Jan 26, 2015 3:55:41

In 5e 14 or 15 of a stat is plenty to start with.

#5

QwertyAzerty

Jan 26, 2015 5:59:01

+1 to all stat MIGHT look good, but in reality is pretty weak since it will boost stat that you don't uses

 

some class require no stats (moon druid, wisdom is not required since most spell you'll cast are concentration self spell taht do not work base on your Wisdom, and your physical stat will change when you transform.

 

Some class require only 1 stats (sorcerer, wizard, caster warlock, caster druid,) for example only require max stat in there casting stat. The other stat are nice, yes I want good dex and constitution to survive, but full spell caster can still survive very well with bad stats as long as they have a decent caster cast

 

Other class need 2 stats (monk) dex and wisdom (tanking heav yarmor fighter (strenght and constitution)

 

Other class need 3 stats (paladin/melee cleric need strenght, constitution and Cha) bladelock (dex/constitution/Cha)

 

Other then weird multicalssing no one need 4+ stats. Does the paladin inheavy armor benefici from a high dex? yes he gain dex save and initiative, but he's using strenght weapon, and heavy armor remove the dex from his AC calculation. Does a wizard need Constitution yes it's helpfull, but if the wizard play well he should be able to avoid damage (protective spell, staying out of range, using illusion to hide from the enemy, using the meat shield class to protect yourself etc...

 

So the +1 to all stats is not that usefull. On my sorcerer, +1 Charisma is great, give me my 16. +1 to dex and Constitution is good. +1 to Wisdom is ok for wisdom save and perception. +1 in Strenght and Intellect is totally wasted since other then athletic and knowledge check, those are useless to a traditional sorcerer. Compare to half elf which give you +2 Charisma, +1 to 2 stat of your choice (dex and Constitution) then darkvision, +2 skill profiency, charm resistance, sleep immunity.

 

As of now, a race that give you +1 in your main stats are still interesting for the class, it will cost them some extra point to get their 16 so the other stat will be lower but if the bonus are worth it it still viable. For example lightfoot hafling compare to half elf, both will have 16 Cha and both might get 16 Dex, but Half elf will probably have higher Constitution and Wisdom then the hafling. But if being able to hide being an ally, rerolling natural 1 on d20, make it worth it for you, then hafling sorcerer can still exist and be viable. If you could buy 16, then the half elf start with 18 Charisma, while the halfling is still stuck at 16, so now Halfling are no longer viable by comparaison. if you allow to buy 16 you need to allow to buy 17.

 

Then doing so, will also technically add an other feat to player (since at the moment it cost you 2 feat to reach the max 20 stats which is mandatory for many class, specifically spell caster) but if you can start with a 18, then you only need 1 feat to reach to perfect 20.

 

 

#6

ChrisCarlson

Jan 26, 2015 6:40:05

QwertyAzerty wrote:
#7

RenoGM

Jan 26, 2015 6:52:21

Totally agree with ChrisCarlson, at our table virtually every character rolls at least once per session using each of their stats. I make sure to include all sorts of saving throws and ability checks throughout an advanture to add variety and ensure that there is absolutely no such thing as a "dump stat" at my table (much to the chagrin of the dwarf fighter that was the only character allowed to address the dwarven council of Hammerforge Hall).

 

It's one of the reasons the players in our game really have to debate the Feat or the ability score increase when they have the option. 

#8

mellored

Jan 26, 2015 7:21:22

15 is expensive to buy.  14+2, also gives you 16, and cost 2 points less.  Which can translate to +2 Dex or +2 Con.

A mountain dwarf starting with 17 Str and 17 Con, can get 18/18 at level 4.

 

 

Human Variant is near the top for most classes, but it's not always the top.

Human is ok at everything.  Never the worst, never the best (unless you roll alot of odd stats).

(Reply to #6)

QwertyAzerty

ChrisCarlson wrote:
#10

OoftaMeg

Jan 26, 2015 7:46:49

I kind of hate to use the term min-maxer (getting one or two scores as high as possible to the detriment of others) because I don't mean to say it's a bad thing to min-max your character, but it is a personal preference.

 

Personally I prefer more generalist characters, so I play reasonably intelligent fighters, tough wizards with high constitution scores, etc.  If I'm playing a fighter I don't want to feel out of character if I'm giving tactical advice for example, which I would if I had 8 int or wis.

 

It depends on what you want to get out of your character.  A variant human starting with a feat can be pretty powerful, but I just wrote up a bard using +1 to all stats because I wanted them to be more of a generalist.

 

Of course I've also been known to run dwarven monks and half-orc wizards so I'm probably not the person you want to ask about the most effective builds in combat.  

#11

ChrisCarlson

Jan 26, 2015 7:56:04

QwertyAzerty wrote:
#12

Illithidbix

Jan 26, 2015 11:19:36

I personally rather thought Pointbuy favoured the standard human much more than the variant.

 

The variant human is quite happy with the 15,14,13,12,10,8 array turning into 16,14,14,12,10,8 + feat+ skill, which is better than 16,15,14,13,11,9 for the standard human.

 

Using pointbuy the standard human can get: 16,16,12,12,12,9 or 16,14,14,14,12,9

#13

Tempest_Stormwind

Jan 26, 2015 16:34:47

Ath-kethin wrote:
#14

Yunru

Jan 26, 2015 17:11:19
Variant humans get a +1 to two stats, a feat and an extra skill. Nothing else (except maybe a language). To compare a Wood Elf gets +2 Dex, +1 Wis, Darkvision, Immune to sleep, resistance to charm and a kinda-Skulker. AFB, but compare a Skulker Human variant and a Wood Elf, there's not that much power difference.
#15

mellored

Jan 27, 2015 15:26:12

I give basic Humans get +1 skill.

I give variant Humans get -1 skill.