Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Jaevin Oct 11, 2014 21:42:04	I took the assasin sub class of Rogue and get proficiency with the poisoners kit but come to find out it takes forever to actually craft a vial of poison and it isn't even a good poison. Is this intended or some oversight? It wouldn't be such a big deal but I am playng in the AL and can not house rule it.
#2 Novacat Oct 11, 2014 21:48:41	It gets worse... you don't need to be proficient with a Poisoner's Kit to craft poisons at all. Being proficient only gives you your proficiency bonus on ability checks related to it. There's no ability check necessary for crafting.
(Reply to #2) Jaevin	Novacat wrote:
#4 Novacat Oct 11, 2014 21:56:02	Jaevin wrote:
(Reply to #4) Jaevin	Novacat wrote:
#6 Timmee Oct 12, 2014 7:48:52	I let a rogue character in the game spend a round concocting a poison to effect an ooze using his poison kit. Basically just asigned a moderate DC and when he completed it, I let himuse his movement to coat his blade and the poison does 2d8 poison damage (basde on cantrip mechanics - he's 6th level, so 2d8) on a failed save and half on a success. The DC of the poison is based on his Intelligence modifier + proficiency + 10.   The rogue has to recoat the blade after each successful attack, using up his movement. Of course, he has Cunning Action. Which helps.   Some may see that as too beneficial, but it really played out well in our game without being over powered.
#7 MechaPilot Oct 12, 2014 13:15:07	@OP:   I agree with you that the basic posion in the PHB is horrible for the following reasons:   It lasts only a minute, meaning you generally have to apply it either directly before combat or in combat. The save DC is so low that any creature without a Con penalty has at least a 55% chance of not taking the damage at all Even when the target fails the save the poison only adds an average of 2.5 damage. The 100 gp vial only coats one melee weapon for 10 strikes or three pieces of ammunition; that's a cost of 10 gp per poisoned melee strike or 33.33 gp for each ranged strike.  For the cost of one poisoned melee strike you could hire a level one fighter for 5 days; for the cost of one poisoned ranged strike you could hire that same level one fighter for 16 days. The 100 gp cost means it takes 50 gp of materials and 20 days to make a single vial.  For the cost of making that single vial you could hire a level one fighter for 25 days and save yourself the 20 days of crafting time.   Fortunately, I do believe that the DMG will include other poisons.  The only thing I can suggest that you ask about is using your poisoning ability to milk poisons from dead venomous creatures.
#8 BRJN Oct 14, 2014 5:54:45	Maybe - just guessing here - had they made "a good poison" easily available at lower levels, the Designers feared that play of the game would devolve into a situation where nobody would ever want to get into a fight UNLESS they first had poison ready.  Which makes everybody else dependant on the Rogue/Thief to carry the fight for them.   That said, the Rogue player and the DM should talk about allowing him to craft "a good poison" during downtime, needing a lot of Treasure and a natural 20 skill roll to accomplish - and some way to keep the townsfolk from asking "What do you think you are doing ?!" since poison use makes you Evil and an accessory to the subsequent murder (not "killing" or "death"), in the eyes of Commoners.  Also introduce a poison-using villian to remind the PCs of what they want to do.   Alternate: your personal Sneak Attack is the mechanical representation of a poisoned blade.  It's already usable only once per turn, so not terribly unbalancing.
#9 Timborama Oct 14, 2014 10:32:31	Poisoning and Poisons will no doubt be more thoroughly covered in the DMG, as it always has in the DMGs I've been reading before 5th. Until then, though Adjudicate as best you can!   I find it odd the basic poison is so expensive. But maybe that's because it's craftable? I dunno, it feels like they accidentally added an extra "0" at the end of the price...
(Reply to #9) onceMoreIntoBreech	Timborama wrote:
(Reply to #8) DoctorBadWolf	BRJN wrote:
#12 Nevvur Oct 15, 2014 7:40:19	Timborama wrote:
(Reply to #12) Clutchbone	Nevvur wrote:
(Reply to #13) Timborama	Clutchbone wrote:
#15 Nevvur Oct 15, 2014 12:11:14	Again, agreed. I would consider 'basic poison' to be something extracted from simple herbs or creatures. The components probably wouldn't be difficult to find in the wild. The poison itself is probably a controlled substance at the marketplace, but its components should not be so exotic as to equal the cost of a horse -- the ultimate comparative item in fantasy world economics! This also reduces production time to 2 daya/vial per RAW, though those guidelines are wonky anyway. I'm fine with a vial a day, long as the crafter forages/spends coin to keep himself supplied with raw ingredients.   edit: the only justification I can think of for those high prices is that most poisons/toxins/venoms we are familiar with on Earth aren't so fast acting... even stuff like Sarin or VX nerve gas can take around a minute to be fatal, but a reality simulator, this game is not!
(Reply to #6) Havoden	Timmee wrote:
(Reply to #16) Timmee	Havoden wrote:
#18 Shannon_Abery Oct 19, 2014 0:35:31	Be assured, more poisons to come in the DMG, but basics DC 8 plus proficiency plus Int modifier will be the Constitution saving throw. And likely, just like the Assassin character already out in the Monster Manual, you'll take half damage if no save and all if save, but perhaps only on a Sneak Attack.  The poison will not last long, but will increase in how long it is stable for with level (or DC of Saving throw).  The costs will likely be similar to the PHB, so don't count on it.  They need something to hold off the lower level characters, besides counting on the DM's use of societal pressure... lol.
#19 DoctorBadWolf Oct 20, 2014 1:11:18	So, the crafting rules in the PHB say that you have to be proficient in the tools related to the thing you want to craft in order to craft it. Still a crappy feature, though.