Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Greyson Aug 31, 2014 11:17:40	Hey, all.   If a druid casts Poison Spray when a hostile creature is within 5 feet of and can see the casting druid, I think in normal circumstances the Poison Spray attack made by the druid would have Disadvantage. However, Poison Spray does not have an attack roll.   Any guidance on this situtation relative to Advantage/Disadvantage on a range spell attack Poison Spray?   One of our players mentioned allowing the target of Poison Spray to have Advantage on the saving throw. But, I am not sure that makes sense. Seems like Poison Spray allows for a consequence-free ranged attack. And, maybe that's the way it is. Just wondering what others think.   Happy gaming.   Players Basic Rules v0.2, page 98 wrote:
#2 Moribund Aug 31, 2014 11:39:28	There is nothing in the rules to indicate that saving throws should be adjusted because of a nearby hostile.  This seems very intentional.  Making such an adjustment would limit the power of close attack spells, for instance bestow curse would be nearly unusable as a touch range spell with a saving throw.   Poison spray only has a range of 10 ft, so it's intended to be used up close and personal, much like shocking grasp.  It does make the saving throw cantrips more versatile, but there are usually trade-offs built in to them.
#3 shivafang Aug 31, 2014 11:51:58	Exactly.  There is nothing RAW about saving throws when adjacent to an enemy.  Doesn't matter if it's poison spray, vicious mockery, sacred flame or any other saving throw spell (those are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.)   You can DM houserule whatever you like - but it's not not part of the D&D rules.
#4 mellored Aug 31, 2014 11:59:53	Part of the reason to have a saving throw / attack roll split, is that saving throws don't have disavantage in melee. Note, they also won't have advantage against prone enemies either.   Note too, that poision spray (and pretty much all spells), do not get +Int to damage the way bows would get +Dex.
#5 shivafang Aug 31, 2014 12:33:38	mellored wrote:
#6 Greyson Aug 31, 2014 12:46:39	Thanks for the replies, fellas.   The notion of Advantage/Disadvantage on a saving throw was an idea that we did not even entertain - just a quick and unfiltered thought one player had. We'd never go for that.   The real question was a ranged attack spell (whether it's five feet or fifty feet) with no attack roll, like Poison Spray and Magic Missile, made with a hostile creature within 5 feet of the caster. Usually, that range attack imposes Disadvantage. But, there are some cases, like these two spells at least, wherein there is no Disadvantage application because no attack roll is made. Now that we understand that, we're good.   Thanks, again.
#7 Thank_Dog Aug 31, 2014 14:35:10	Greyson wrote: