Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Arithezoo Jul 06, 2014 15:53:55	Power Word Kill and Stun both work only on a target whose current HP are lower than a certain threshold value.  They work automatically, no save to resist (so even legendary monsters would be vulnerable I think), but have zero effect if the target's HP are above the threshold.   So, my question: should players know the current HP of a monster?   On the one hand, if they don't know then these spells become very stupid.  Is anyone going to risk their one 9th level spell slot on a gamble?    On the other hand, if players do know, then the fight becomes much less scary.  Instead of a fight whose end is a secret, it becomes a matter of beating the monster down past the threshold.  In addition, every spell (and attack, and action requiring a check) is a gamble, because you need to hit the target number on a roll of the d20.   Is that the intent behind these spells?  That the player guessing whether the target's hp are below the threshold takes the place of the regular game mechanic of rolling a d20 to determing success or failure?   If so, wouldn't this simply reward those with knowledge of monster HP, as they can just track damage dealt?   I think I would prefer if these spells had saving throws like everything else.  It seems very odd to have two spells with a completely different mechanic from all the rest.
#2 eleran Jul 06, 2014 16:49:19	Arithezoo wrote:
#3 FallingIcicle Jul 06, 2014 16:53:25	Arithezoo wrote:
#4 eleran Jul 06, 2014 16:58:45	FallingIcicle wrote:
#5 Arithezoo Jul 06, 2014 18:50:52	Thanks, FallingIcicle, I like that version too.
#6 obsid Jul 06, 2014 19:00:20	I would perfer a mixture, something like roll 3d6 and multiply by 10.  If the character is under that amount of hp they must save with a disadvantage, if they are above that amount they must save with advantage.  That way it is a little more powerful in terms of hp it can hit for the "you cant save" being gone, its a little more random (can hit more or less), but still focused on lower hp monsters, and even if it is really high hp it is possible to kill it anyway (if they double fail and they are not a legendary that has a "I always win saves x times per day").
#7 Psikerlord Jul 06, 2014 18:58:06	Arithezoo wrote:
#8 Ahglock Jul 06, 2014 19:27:02	eleran wrote:
#9 Uchawi Jul 07, 2014 5:02:54	There types of spells are worse in the DMs hands, because they know explicitly what a characters hit points are at. I agree they should require a save. At least at that point it is transparent and you don't get into all the metagame issues.
(Reply to #9) AaronOfBarbaria	Uchawi wrote:
#11 Rastapopoulos Jul 07, 2014 7:00:45	Uchawi wrote:
#12 Tichrimo Jul 07, 2014 8:19:28	If hp thresholds are going to be an integral part of the game, there needs to be some mechanic for determining a critter's hp, be that spells, knowledge checks, or DM communication.  (Much like in 4e, where determining which enemies were Solo, Elite, or Minions varied from table to table.)
#13 eleran Jul 07, 2014 10:39:29	Ahglock wrote:
#14 Particle_Man Jul 07, 2014 13:25:17	I think at the very least, the DM should make it clear through vebal description when the monster is very close to death - "the creature staggers, obviously suffering agony from the wounds you have inflicted on it, it utters a howl of pain as it leaps forward in a desparate attack, almost blinded from the blood falling into its eyes" as opposed to "while wounded, the creature seems simply to be angry rather than afraid, and strides forwards confidently to finish you off".  Presumably the characters would at least have a rough idea of when it was safe to cast these spells (and their little cousin, sleep).