Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jasonray Dec 04, 2014 4:53:57	noobie question here on if "surprise" is generally always a roll.   Suppose that I have a character that is out of sight to a monster (either he is completely covered or has stealthed into position).  That hidden character then initiates a ranged attack.  How is this handled?  I imagine it generally falls cleanly into one of the following.   1) The rules say clearly that you must roll surprise!  The choice to attack initiates combat, and thus the monster rolls for surprise, and the monster + character(s) roll for initiative.  This means that the sneaky range attach may not occur first, surprise is not a given!   Or   2) Because the character is not going to be seen prior to attacking, the sneaky range attack occurs before anything else.  The monster is automatically "surprised".  The sneak range attack get to occur first, then roll initiative.   Thanks for the help!
#2 Sorxores Dec 04, 2014 5:55:57	Surprise is a special kind of round that happen before the fight begin.   So if your party is already fighting the group of enemy, and you join the fight hidden, then you are simply hidden, you can advantage and sneack attack on your first attack, if you got more attack (from multiattack gain trought multicalssing or from a bonus action) that second attack do not have advantage (from being hidden, but you might have it from other sources)   If you got near the ennemies and the ennemies do not know that you nor your ally are around, they are "surprised" you got them while they were still playing cards, or talking about there week-end or even planning how they will attack the invader that entered the dungeon, but they are not ready for combat, they you get a Surprise round. -During that surprise round, everyone near the combat field do their stealth check (so keep the heavy armor character far behind) against the ennemies passive perception (if they are playing card, talking about there week-end or planning how they would do something) or they might roll for perception if they are guarding and looking around. You compare the perception to the lowest stealth check (if the heavy armored fighter make a lot of noise, no matter how well the rogue is hidden, the ennemies heard the group and are ready for a fight -All the enemy who succeed in there perception can participate in the surprise round, and obviously all the player can act in the surprise round as well (but the fighter and cleric in heavy armor who stay far behind might have to use the surprise round to dask toward to battefield -All the ennemies who failed their perception, are SURPRISE and cannot do anything during the surprise round, they have full AC, they do not ahve any ailment, they simply don'T act.   - Roll initiative, then act according to initiave other as usual exccept those who failed their perception are suprise and do not act.   -You as a rogue, if you are an assassin all your attack against someone who didn't had a turn yet (even if not surprise) you have advantage against them. If they are surprise you ALSO have automatic critical hit on ALL your attacks on the surprise target (doubling your weapon, sneak attack and any other magical bonus dice (from Hunter mark/Hex if you multiclass or if you have a elemental weapon for example)) If you are not an assassin, then since you succesfully hide, you still have advantage on your first attack only.   -Once everyone NOT surprise have acted, the first round of combat can begin as normal. If you go hide again, you will gain advantage on your first attack, but not surprise, since the enemies know you are there, they simply don't knwo exactly where.
#3 Noctaem Dec 04, 2014 6:40:37	jasonray wrote:
(Reply to #2) AaronOfBarbaria	Sorxores wrote:
#5 Clutchbone Dec 04, 2014 12:05:32	Also I don't think you always need to be hidden or invisible to surprise someone; a sudden betrayal will work too.
#6 Noctaem Dec 04, 2014 12:38:13	Clutchbone wrote:
(Reply to #3) Danny_Montanny	Noctaem wrote:
#8 Noctaem Dec 04, 2014 13:32:02	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#9 jasonray Dec 04, 2014 14:04:09	thanks this is very helpful!
#10 Plaguescarred4 Dec 04, 2014 14:42:49	Personally for Ambush (an attack that surprise and initiate combat), i prefer to place the attacking PC at the top of the initiative then proceed the first round with surprise, thus ensuring that it act before anyone, without having him possibly act twice before surprised foe.    1. Determine surprise. 2. Determine where combatants are in relation to each other and their environment. 3. Roll initiative. 4. Place ambushing PC at top of the initiative 5. Proceed in initiative order.
(Reply to #6) Clutchbone	Noctaem wrote:
(Reply to #10) Danny_Montanny	Plaguescarred4 wrote:
(Reply to #11) randl	Clutchbone wrote:
(Reply to #7) Clutchbone	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #14) Danny_Montanny	Clutchbone wrote:
#16 Noctaem Dec 05, 2014 4:55:28	Plaguescarred4 wrote:
#17 guachi Dec 05, 2014 14:37:16	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#18 Noon Dec 05, 2014 15:29:07	Clutchbone wrote:
#19 Plaguescarred4 Dec 05, 2014 16:27:28	Danny_Montanny wrote: