Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zymurgy65 Apr 08, 2015 2:02:44	In the PHB, Devil's Sight appears to allow normal vision (i.e. with no dim light disadvantage imposed on sight-based Perception checks) even in magical darkness. This is at odds with the description in the MM, which states only that magical darkness doesn't interfere with darkvision, implying that total darkness would still impose disadvantage on sight-based Perception checks. Which one is correct? Or are they both correct, with the eldritch invocation being slightly more effective than the innate fiendish ability?
#2 Kentus Apr 08, 2015 2:17:58	Some magical darkness bypasses Darkvision (like the Darkness spell), per rule specific over general. Devil's Sight is not included, since the Darkness spell (in this example) does bypass Darkvision, but not Devil's Sight.
#3 Byakugan01 Apr 08, 2015 2:33:36	There is no dim light disadvantage with darkvision...you see fine up to your darkvision range and then have the same vision(ie none) as a human beyond that.    darkness is treated as dim to you, and you see normally in dim light, but only in black and white.     Devils sight bypasses magical darkness and normal darkness, to 120 feet. Past that you see just like a human would.
#4 zymurgy65 Apr 08, 2015 6:04:54	Byakugan01 wrote:
(Reply to #3) Coredump00	Byakugan01 wrote:
#6 MasterNamer Apr 08, 2015 8:57:27	My understanding is that darkvision lets you see regularly in dim light to its effective range, and see everything in black and white to its effective range in darkness or no light, but doesn't do anything in magical darkness. While devil's sight grants regular sight to its effective range regardless of the lighting conditions, including magical darkness.
#7 JRutterbush Apr 08, 2015 10:28:51	The Devil's Sight gained by Warlocks is not necessarily the same ability as the Devil's Sight possessed by monsters in the Monster Manual. They have the same name, but they work slightly differently based on where you got the ability.
#8 transcendantviewer Apr 08, 2015 10:56:34	Ironically, when I saw the name of this thread, I expected it to be a question like "If it's called Devil's Sight, why don't Devils have this ability?" which would have made me laugh, because sometimes, flavor fails.
#9 transcendantviewer Apr 08, 2015 11:36:08	V i s i o n a n d L i g h t The most fundamental tasks of adventuring—noticing danger, finding hidden objects, hitting an enemy in combat, and targeting a spell, to name just a few— rely heavily on a character’s ability to see. Darkness and other effects that obscure vision can prove a significant hindrance. A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on W isdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight. A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A). The presence or absence of light in an environment creates three categories of illumination: bright light, dim light, and darkness. Bright light lets m ost creatures see normally. Even gloom y days provide bright light, as do torches, lanterns, fires, and other sources of illumination within a specific radius. Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area o f dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full m oon might bathe the land in dim light. Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of m agical darkness.   D a r k v i s i o n Many creatures in the w orlds o f D&D, especially those that dwell underground, have darkvision. Within a specified range, a creature with darkvision can see in darkness as if the darkness w ere dim light, so areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned. However, the creature can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
#10 Byakugan01 Apr 08, 2015 21:45:26	Weird.    I read the description differently.    if you treat darkness as dimness and you have the ability to see normally in dimness, then you should be able to see in darkness.
#11 transcendantviewer Apr 08, 2015 22:14:51	Nope, it's a case-by-case basis. Darkness is treated as Dim Light for you, and as such, you can still see better than the majority of others, but it's still far from your preferred visibility conditions. Dim Light, on the other hand, such as that supplied by the penumbra of a torch, you can see through normally, suffering no penalties whatsoever.
#12 zymurgy65 Apr 09, 2015 2:19:28	Thanks for the feedback, some of which confirms what I'd discovered by using the old "RTFM" method.   Page 185 of the Player's Handbook states that within a creature's darkvision range, “...areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned.” Page 183 is equally lucid: “In a lightly obscured area... creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.” Clearly, darkness does impose disadvantage on sight-based Perception checks for creatures with darkvision.   The Monster Manual's entry for Devil's Sight is also straightforward enough: “Magical darkness doesn't impede the devil's darkvision.” In other words, magical darkness is treated as normal darkness. This allows the devil to see in shades of grey, but with disadvantage on sight-based Perception checks as noted above.   My confusion arose from the description of the Devil's Sight eldritch invocation for the Warlock class on page 110 of the PHB: “You can see normally in darkness...” This implies seeing as you would in moderate to bright light, rather than dim light. If so, a Warlock with Devil's Sight would not suffer disadvantage on sight-based Perception checks in darkness.   JRutterbush wrote: