Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bdubgnarkill Aug 04, 2015 11:35:58	When following the thread started my Mellored called Celestial Link Evoking Radiance Into Creation - Cleric Guide, I came across this under his Feats section.       Warcaster: Clerics can already cast spells with stuff in their hands and most swing weapons.  Still, extra concention is nice and possibly more threatening OA's isn't bad       My question, where does it say that clerics can cast sonomic spells with a hammer and shield in hand? I cannot find it in the book, and I want to know where it says this.
#2 Yunru Aug 04, 2015 11:48:54	... why not ask in thread? Clerics can use their shield as a holy symbol.
#3 Touc Aug 04, 2015 11:59:26	Under the "Actions" section, drawing or putting away a weapon (within reason) takes no action, so it is presumed one could tuck the weapon away in some fashion to cast a somatic spell. A version of this question was asked about wizards who carry staves, and the answer is the same.
#4 mellored Aug 04, 2015 15:45:35	what yunru said. your shield can also be your implement.
#5 Rya.Reisender Aug 05, 2015 1:04:47	I wouldn't say it is completely true, though. If you have a shield with a holy emblem you can cast S+M spells with it, but you still need a free hand to cast pure somatic spells (this has been explained in sage advice).   Also drawing or sheathing your weapon is listed under "Other actions". Other actions are defined so that you can do ONE per turn, if you want to do a second, you need to use an action for it. So it's not fully free.   e.g. Round 1 (Cleric starts with mace and shield with holy emblem on it) - Cleric casts S+M spell with shield hand (action) Round 2 - Cleric puts away mace (other action) - Cleric casts S spell with free hand (action) Round 3 - Cleric equips mace (other action) - Cleric attacks with mace   I guess as long as you only have one weapon it doesn't matter too much, unless the mace is magical and has some positive effect when equipped (because you have to end at least one round without the mace equipped).
#6 OoftaMeg Aug 05, 2015 6:18:42	I personally allow clerics/paladins cast whatever spell they want, which is a common house rule. The alternative is: drop/cast/pick up your weapon. Oh, and if your paranoid, tie yourself to the weapon somehow. Completely legal, totally silly.
#7 mellored Aug 05, 2015 6:34:42	how many S-but-not-M spells are there?
#8 Rya.Reisender Aug 06, 2015 0:05:34	Quite many. Around 50% a third of the Cleric spells.   e.g. 1st level cleric spells in the basic rules that are somatic but not material: Cure Wounds Detect Magic Guiding Bolt Inflict Wounds (4 out of 9)   I personally allow clerics/paladins cast whatever spell they want, which is a common house rule. The alternative is: drop/cast/pick up your weapon. Oh, and if your paranoid, tie yourself to the weapon somehow. Completely legal, totally silly.
#9 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 05, 2015 13:15:44	mellored wrote:
#10 mellored Aug 06, 2015 9:47:38	Hmm...  that's more then i expected.  And there are more combat spells too.
(Reply to #6) Touc	OoftaMeg wrote:
#12 Yunru Aug 06, 2015 16:40:04	I view it as a mistake that doesn't make sense. I can use my focus if a S spell requires M as well, but if it suddenly doesn't require M I can no longer channel it through my focus? Ludicrous!
#13 Rya.Reisender Aug 07, 2015 3:49:29	Can't really be a mistake if this was directly clarified through Sage Advice, though.   Relevant link: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-spellcasting
#14 Yunru Aug 07, 2015 4:03:16	Yes it can. Sage Advice clarifies how things are, not how they were intended to be.
#15 Noctaem Aug 07, 2015 4:32:44	Yunru wrote:
#16 Rya.Reisender Aug 07, 2015 4:38:36	How rules are is how they are intended to be. You wouldn't write down rules you don't intend to be there.
#17 Noctaem Aug 07, 2015 4:56:48	Rya.Reisender wrote:
#18 mellored Aug 07, 2015 5:47:20	Looking more closely at that list, the majority are attack spells, which you likely won't use when wielding a weapon.  (wis vs str). The rest are out of combat spells.   There are a few exceptions, like fog cloud, mirror image, and magic weapon, but you can always swap for that.  Or take the feat.   So it's still a pretty minor issue.   But i've updated the handbook text.
#19 Rya.Reisender Aug 07, 2015 6:12:37	Even if you strictly track object interactions, it's still just a minor problem because even 100% according to the rules you still can unequip a weapon, then cast a spell and then on the next turn equip the weapon again and then attack. So you won't even lose a round, only the ability to do other object interactions for those two turns and the fact that you are left without weapon until your next turn (but since there's nothing like "parry", having the weapon equipped or not outside your turn hardly makes any difference). So for clerics with shield it's no problem at all in 99% of all cases.
#20 mellored Aug 07, 2015 6:44:15	Rya.Reisender wrote:
#21 Yunru Aug 07, 2015 9:25:46	Take Tavern Brawler and just punch things :P Or a Level in Monk if you're Dex based.
#22 Rya.Reisender Aug 07, 2015 10:39:17	True, I didn't think of OAs. Damn I could have used that in the last battle and not waste Disengage when running from the Cleric.