Ranger vanish during combat? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 greymarch Aug 09, 2014 14:32:29	Can a ranger, using the vanish ability, hide during combat? I have looked all over these message boards, especially reading the various hide discussions, and have found nothing which specifically answers this question. If a ranger can vanish during combat, who exactly can he hide from? If the ranger can hide during combat using the vanish ability, would the ranger become visible to the creature he attacks after his first attack, or after all his attacks in a round? In other words, when would the ranger lose advantage? After the first attack, or would the ranger lose advantage after he completes all his attacks using the attack action?
#2 DM_HEEGZ Aug 09, 2014 14:50:55	Yes they can hide during combat. Vanish just means that a ranger can conduct Hide as a Bonus Action instead of a normal Action. There are still rules for hiding and a Dex check, etc. I run my games that being hidden ends after the first attack roll, whether it is a hit or a miss. It is pretty powerful, and the rogue benefits the most if the attack hits and gives sneak attack damage. This is based off of the last sentence under the "Unseen Attackers and Targets" on p. 195 of the PHB: If you are hidden -- both unseen and unheard -- when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.
#3 greymarch Aug 09, 2014 14:53:46	DM_HEEGZ wrote:
#4 DM_HEEGZ Aug 09, 2014 15:14:44	The ranger still needs to follow the rules for hiding, it is just that he can do so as a bonus action. I think the point of Vanish is similar to the Rogue's Cunning Action. They can use a bonus action to hide instead of having to make it their only Action on their turn. It is still really hard to hide in combat, but doable under certain circumstances that the DM might allow (see box text on p. 177 of PHB). All of the hiding rules are in the Basic .pdf for anyone without the PHB. Vanish simply grants Hide as a bonus action to Rangers at 14th level, plus avoidance at being tracked fluff. [edit] I might allow a ranger to wait a round and then make an Attack from hiding if he gave the enemies time to engage other targets. It really depends on the enemies involved and the environment, as well as the actions of the other PCs. So in the end, the DM is responsible for adjucating hiding and maintaing play balance. Also, the Ranger could move into cover, bonus action vanish/hide, and then ready an Attack action for the next visible foe to maintain surprise/advantage. This uses the maximum options in the form of Move, Bonus Action, Action, Reaction.
#5 jaelis Aug 09, 2014 15:12:40	greymarch wrote:
#6 Psikerlord Aug 09, 2014 18:13:42	Can someone explain what the vanish spell does? I dont have phb...
#7 greymarch Aug 09, 2014 19:54:47	Psikerlord wrote:
#8 Psikerlord Aug 09, 2014 20:14:02	greymarch wrote:
#9 Larry_Hunsaker Aug 09, 2014 22:42:07	You cannot hide if someone is watching you, that means, to me, they must first see you and know were you are. If you are hidden, they lose track of you and just because you later peep out a little to see around does not mean they suddenly notice you. They would use their Passive Perception for that, and you would make a Steath check to see if you stay hidden. If you check beats all Passive Perception scores of all enemies would could have LOS to you, you stay hidden. That is how I would run it. So I would just note the highest Passive Perception score and see if the PC Steath check beat it.
(Reply to #4) hallows1999	DM_HEEGZ wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

greymarch

Aug 09, 2014 14:32:29

Can a ranger, using the vanish ability, hide during combat? I have looked all over these message boards, especially reading the various hide discussions, and have found nothing which specifically answers this question.

If a ranger can vanish during combat, who exactly can he hide from?

If the ranger can hide during combat using the vanish ability, would the ranger become visible to the creature he attacks after his first attack, or after all his attacks in a round? In other words, when would the ranger lose advantage? After the first attack, or would the ranger lose advantage after he completes all his attacks using the attack action?

DM_HEEGZ

Aug 09, 2014 14:50:55

Yes they can hide during combat. Vanish just means that a ranger can conduct Hide as a Bonus Action instead of a normal Action. There are still rules for hiding and a Dex check, etc.

I run my games that being hidden ends after the first attack roll, whether it is a hit or a miss. It is pretty powerful, and the rogue benefits the most if the attack hits and gives sneak attack damage. This is based off of the last sentence under the "Unseen Attackers and Targets" on p. 195 of the PHB:

If you are hidden -- both unseen and unheard -- when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.

greymarch

Aug 09, 2014 14:53:46

DM_HEEGZ wrote:

DM_HEEGZ

Aug 09, 2014 15:14:44

The ranger still needs to follow the rules for hiding, it is just that he can do so as a bonus action. I think the point of Vanish is similar to the Rogue's Cunning Action. They can use a bonus action to hide instead of having to make it their only Action on their turn. It is still really hard to hide in combat, but doable under certain circumstances that the DM might allow (see box text on p. 177 of PHB). All of the hiding rules are in the Basic .pdf for anyone without the PHB. Vanish simply grants Hide as a bonus action to Rangers at 14th level, plus avoidance at being tracked fluff.

[edit]

I might allow a ranger to wait a round and then make an Attack from hiding if he gave the enemies time to engage other targets. It really depends on the enemies involved and the environment, as well as the actions of the other PCs. So in the end, the DM is responsible for adjucating hiding and maintaing play balance.

Also, the Ranger could move into cover, bonus action vanish/hide, and then ready an Attack action for the next visible foe to maintain surprise/advantage. This uses the maximum options in the form of Move, Bonus Action, Action, Reaction.

jaelis

Aug 09, 2014 15:12:40

greymarch wrote:

Psikerlord

Aug 09, 2014 18:13:42

Can someone explain what the vanish spell does? I dont have phb...

greymarch

Aug 09, 2014 19:54:47

Psikerlord wrote:

Psikerlord

Aug 09, 2014 20:14:02

greymarch wrote:

Larry_Hunsaker

Aug 09, 2014 22:42:07

You cannot hide if someone is watching you, that means, to me, they must first see you and know were you are. If you are hidden, they lose track of you and just because you later peep out a little to see around does not mean they suddenly notice you. They would use their Passive Perception for that, and you would make a Steath check to see if you stay hidden. If you check beats all Passive Perception scores of all enemies would could have LOS to you, you stay hidden. That is how I would run it. So I would just note the highest Passive Perception score and see if the PC Steath check beat it.

(Reply to #4)

hallows1999

DM_HEEGZ wrote: