Ranger3 / Paladin3 has spell level 3 or 2?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

prestokeys

Oct 25, 2014 14:38:03

Simple question:  Ranger3 / Paladin3 has spell level

      (1.5 + 1.5) rounded down = 3 rounded down = 3,

or

    1.5 rounded down + 1.5 rounded down = 1 + 1 = 2

#2

Yunru

Oct 25, 2014 15:02:20 		I'd have to check, does Ranger get spellcasting off the bat? If not then you don't use the Multiclass rules.
#3

Ganymede425

Oct 25, 2014 15:05:32

Based on the passage on page 164, I believe you pool together all of your levels in Ranger and Paladin and then divide the total by two.

 

"...half your levels (rounded down) in the Paladin and Ranger classes..."

 

If you are Rng 1/Pal 1, you have two levels in the Paladin and Ranger classes. Half of that, rounded down, is one.

 

Edit: This is the formula you'd use for your program...   0.5(P+R) where P is your paladin level and R is your ranger level.

#4

prestokeys

Oct 25, 2014 15:28:36

Yunru wrote:
#5

Novacat

Oct 25, 2014 15:43:41

The multiclass spellcaster rules do not apply to characters that do not already cast spells. A Ranger1/Paladin1 would have no spells, because he has not yet gotten the Spellcasting class feature from either class.

#6

El_Condoro

Oct 25, 2014 16:01:16

Fighter5/Rogue2/Ranger3/Paladin5

 

Ranger3 + Paladin5 = 8/2 = 4

Fighter/5 (or) Rogue2 = 5/3 = 1 (rounded down)

for a total spell level of 5 (4/3/2).

 

The key word is that is says "half (or a third) your levels", as compared to level. So I read that to mean you add them together before you divide them.

For Fighter and Rogue it says "or" so you only take one, in this case, so I would assume the highest. But if the character has both Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster I would go with adding them and dividing by 3 (5 + 2)/3 = 2 rounded down for a total of 6.

#7

prestokeys

Oct 25, 2014 16:14:36

El_Condoro wrote:
#8

El_Condoro

Oct 25, 2014 16:11:52

On re-reading p.164 of PHB it could be interpreted as your last method but because the (round down) appears after each category, I think it's by category.

 

[Edit] Yes, sorry about the dynamic editing!

#9

Overpromises

Oct 25, 2014 21:17:38

The rules do seem to say that each class level is rounded down before adding to the multiclass spellcasting level. I assume that this was intended as a deliberate penalty to multiclassing with what are already hybrid classes or subclasses, since rounding the total down would have been fairer.

 

The total would include both ⅓ of the Arcane Trickster levels rounded down and ⅓ of the Eldritch Knight levels rounded down, though.

#10

prestokeys

Oct 25, 2014 21:38:47

Overpromises wrote:
(Reply to #6)

Undrhil

El_Condoro wrote:
#12

El_Condoro

Oct 25, 2014 22:05:21

It really is very unclear.

 

For example a Paladin1/Ranger1 would give 2 1st level slots if the halving and rounding is done after adding - even though neither class can cast spells at 1st level.

 

If the halving and rounding is done per class then they would have no spells, as expected.

 

But, the wording is still unclear...

(Reply to #12)

prestokeys

For what it's worth, what I had in my code before I started this thread (and still do because I haven't changed anything yet) is:

 

 

virtual int getSpellLevel() const override {

    int sum = 0;

    for (CharacterClass* x : componentClasses)

        sum += x->getSpellLevel();

    return sum;

}

 

 

With this,  the spell level of each component class is rounded down first (since 'sum' is integer) and then the total sum is obtained by adding up the rounded down values.  This is what caused a ranger3 / paladin3 to show up with spell level 2 in my program instead of 3, which looked like a bug, but then made me wonder if that is what the rules were meant to be, and hence this thread.  After reading more new responses, I'm wondering if I should just keep it the way it is right now instead of changing anything.

(Reply to #13)

Irithil

prestokeys wrote:
#15

Novacat

Oct 25, 2014 23:46:58

Irithil wrote:
#16

Ganymede425

Oct 25, 2014 23:52:12

Irithil wrote:
(Reply to #16)

Undrhil

Ganymede425 wrote:
#18

Novacat

Oct 26, 2014 0:53:08

Guys, the RAW is unclear. It's vaguely written, and can be interpreted either way. English is a sonuvabitch like that.

#19

prestokeys

Oct 26, 2014 7:33:07

Novacat wrote:
#20

paulstrait

Oct 26, 2014 10:32:01

If you want to know what the designers meant, just ask them directly.  They take these kinds of questions on twitter.  Why not just ask them?

#21

awaken_D_M_golem

Oct 26, 2014 11:45:38

hmm ... how about a

 

Drow  Ranger 1 / FiEK 1 / RogAT 1

totals 1 + 1/6th casting levels, round down to 1.

Drow 3 gets a spell, to go with the Drow 1 spell.

Could use the level casting slots for the Drow racial spells.

 

#22

Novacat

Oct 26, 2014 11:52:29

awaken_D_M_golem wrote:
#23

Gnarl

Oct 26, 2014 13:55:20

As a DM I'd rule that it's a level 3 spellcaster. If a paladin 6 or a ranger 6 isn't broken, then a ranger 3/paladin 3 that has a caster level of 3 isn't broken either. There's really no point in reading RAW in the least favorable way if it doen't break the game.

(Reply to #18)

Ganymede425

Novacat wrote:
(Reply to #24)

Timborama

Ganymede425 wrote:
#26

mellored

Oct 27, 2014 7:47:56

I vote add them.

 

IMO: Multiclassing spell casters are a bit too weak general, and no need to nerf them further.

(Reply to #26)

prestokeys

Too bad there are no polls in the forum.  I can only count the votes of those who posted in this thread.

#28

awaken_D_M_golem

Oct 27, 2014 15:51:24

Novacat wrote:
#29

Ganymede425

Oct 27, 2014 16:21:50

Timborama wrote:
#30

Jamwes

Oct 30, 2014 10:05:25

IMHO: Write the program with an eye towards weird rulings like this to benifit the players. Try to stay constant with the program's choices for un-ruled edge cases. Have a programer's notes/about/FAQ section in the program where you can list out the weird edge cases, how they could be interpreted differently, the method used in the program, and the rational behind chosing the method selected.

 

Like said above, multiclassed spellcasters are already considered to be on the weak side anyway. Might as well give the benifit of the doubt for the weird edge cases when they come up.

#31

cowleymen

Oct 30, 2014 12:12:00

In a few examples, rouge is mentioned when you have the Eldritch knight subclass, but rouge levels dont count until you obtian its magic subclass as well. just like with ranger 1/ paladin 1, rouge 2 has no spell casting, so you dont get a level of spell casting for bonuses untill thrid level(and a subclass choice of trickster) for rouge levels. Multiclass spellcasting only counts if the class is granting the spellcasting feature.