Readied Spell

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

MightyZehir

Jul 14, 2014 0:21:12

How long can you hold a readied spell? Until the start of your next turn or until your concentration breaks?

#2

obsid

Jul 14, 2014 0:38:45

Normally my thought was if you dont use it in a round then its over and wasted.  But its possible to read it that if you keep reading the spell (and you keep concentration) that you might be able to keep it going.  Its a bit ambiguous between the two interpretations, but I would still think the last one round is more what they were getting at.  (its even possible to read it that you can ready a spell, and then take other actions after that and continue to keep it readied as long as you maintain concentration, but I think this is the least likely interpretation and it makes a delayed blast fireball a useless spell).

#3

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 3:46:25

obsid wrote:
#4

Overpromises

Jul 14, 2014 7:32:32

I agree that the caster should be allowed to continue to use a Ready action every round to keep the spell ready either until a reaction actually triggers or his concentration breaks. If he wants to both use Ready and cast another spell using his Bonus Action, I don't see anything as written to prevent that either.

 

He should also be allowed to use a Cast a Spell action on a subsequent round to use up the readied spell if he no longer thinks any trigger is likely or necessary but still wants to use the spell.

#5

E-Tallitnics

Jul 14, 2014 7:33:41

These all sound good!

 

I really like Overpromises idea of changing Ready to Cast A Spell if the trigger doesn't happen. Casters get so few slots having it be wasted just seems "not fun".

 

However they've already cast the spell so if things change dramatically and they really can't find a use for the spell, then they would let it dissipate and the slot would be expended.

(Reply to #4)

Overpromises

Overpromises wrote:
#7

2Chlorobutanal

Jul 14, 2014 17:22:30

I think a strict interpretation would mean the spell is wasted if the reaction is not taken within 1 round (readying gives you a 1-round window to take the reaction, other concentration effects are limited by their duration), but I conceptually don't have much issue with allowing a caster to 'hold on' to the spell to use as an action (either by casting it or readying it again) on subsequent turns.

#8

Archon007

Jul 14, 2014 20:06:44

A readied action ends at the BEGINING of your next turn. 

(Reply to #8)

2Chlorobutanal

Archon007 wrote:
#10

E-Tallitnics

Jul 14, 2014 20:30:56

Archon007 wrote:
#11

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 21:41:39

Archon007 wrote:
#12

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 21:46:40

E-Tallitnics wrote:
(Reply to #11)

2Chlorobutanal

There really shouldn't be an "end of a round"  for any sense other than initiative ordering.  Otherwise, if readied actions end after the lowest initiative actor is finished, no matter how hard a slower opponent tried, they could not ready actions against somebody who beat them in initiative.

 

 I couldn't find a definitive source to confirm or refute this in the Basic rules, but my working assumption is that a duration of "one round" means from one actor's turn to their next.

 

This is supported by statements about reactions and readying that say "When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn."  (Not the start of the next 'round.')

Along with, "Remember that you can take only one reaction per round," this seems to mean that "a round" lasts until your next turn starts.

 

This is also consistent with both 3rd and 4th editions.

 

I thought we were all already working under this assumption.  The tricky part is about readying spells.

 

If a player readies a non-spellcasting action, there is no penalty involved (other than the loss of time) if the action is aborted.  If the player wishes to continue readying the same action for the same trigger, there is nothing to stop them from doing so.  ("My trigger didn't occur last turn?  Okay, I'll move a little bit and ready the same action again for the same condition.)

 

If a spellcaster does this, though, by the letter of the rule, they will lose a spell slot for every round they repeat their readied action, regardless of whether or not they actually 'cast' the spell.

 

Even though I don't think it's explicitly permitted, I think it's a reasonable allowance to let spellcasters continue readying a spell from round to round by maintaining their concentration without expending additional spell slots, which is what I thought was the main discussion.

#14

2Chlorobutanal

Jul 14, 2014 22:02:44

lawrencehoy wrote:
#15

E-Tallitnics

Jul 14, 2014 22:10:59

lawrencehoy wrote:
(Reply to #15)

2Chlorobutanal

E-Tallitnics wrote:
#17

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 22:30:29

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#18

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 22:30:49

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #15)

MightyZehir

E-Tallitnics wrote:
#20

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 22:41:03

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#21

2Chlorobutanal

Jul 14, 2014 22:49:41

In the sidebar, they mention the "round," but purely for initiative tracking purposes.  Everything else in the basic rules that seems to deal with passage of time (as opposed to the order of play) implies that "one round" lasts from your current turn to the start of the next one.

 

If you're the third person to take a turn out of 5 actors, every other actor should have a turn during the "round" between your turns.  2 of them occur lower in the initiative order, in what you might call the same "round" as the turn you just took, and 2 of them occur higher, in what would be considered the "next round."  However, they all occur within the span of "one round."

 

If you're at mile marker 10.4 on the highway, and there's a gas station at 10.6 and another one at 11.2, then there are two gas stations within one mile.  If, at marker 10.4, your car can drive for exactly one mile before it runs out of gas, you will drive until 11.4 before your car stops.

#22

MightyZehir

Jul 14, 2014 23:09:37

I think RAW suggest that a round ends after each character has taken a turn which creates tons of problems.

 

Combat Step by Step
1. Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone
involved in the combat encounter is surprised.
2. Establish positions. The DM decides where all the
characters and monsters are located. Given the
adventurers’ marching order or their stated positions in
the room or other location, the DM figures out where the
adversaries are—how far away and in what direction.
3. Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter
rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants’ turns.
4. Take turns. Each participant in the battle takes a turn in
initiative order.
5. Begin the next round. When everyone involved in the
combat has had a turn, the round ends. Repeat step 4 until
the fighting stops.

(Reply to #22)

2Chlorobutanal

Yeah, it says "the round" ends, but for things that characters do which track the passage of time in rounds, they increment at the start of an actor's turn.

 

Reactions and Readied Actions specifically mention this, as I quoted already.

(Reply to #23)

MightyZehir

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#25

lawrencehoy

Jul 14, 2014 23:41:27

MightyZehir wrote:
#26

2Chlorobutanal

Jul 14, 2014 23:54:42

Every single other combat action that modifies something for one round describes it as lasting from turn to turn, such as "until the start of your next turn" (dodge), "before the start of your next turn" (help) or "until after your first turn" (surprise), so either readying an action is a special unique situation that, by nature of interpretation, leaves (on average) combatants only ever able to ready actions for half the enemies in a battle, or the usage of the phrase "later in the round" is simply poor word choice.

#27

lawrencehoy

Jul 15, 2014 2:13:57

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
#28

Archon007

Jul 15, 2014 9:16:47

lawrencehoy wrote:
#29

MightyZehir

Jul 16, 2014 1:06:36

  Thanks for all the great answers. I think I would rule that the spell will last until the start of the character's next turn, but I would also give them a choice to use their action on that turn to release the spell immediately or lose the spell slot.

#30

Danny_Montanny

Jul 16, 2014 7:33:27

I'd rule that spell slot would be expended on the initial casting, as it say that in the rules (you cast the spell as normal but hold it's energy). Now if your trigger doesnt happen, you had already cast the spell so you can continue concentrating (changing the trigger if you wish), let the energy dissipate, or let the spell loose. If something ruins your concentration, though, the spell slot was still used and no spell effect occurs. Well couldn't I ready a spell indefinitely? And only move your speed (so half of normal out of combat movement) and do nothing else? No ability checks, no other actions, or even social interaction. I'd say why not? The concentration on holding a spell at the ready is much more intense than would be required on normal concentration spells, as their energy has already been released and you need only to hold onto a small portion of it to keep the spell going.

#31

BoldItalic

Jul 16, 2014 9:48:04

Rob Hamilton ‏@chimerasame @mikemearls Can a low-init character ready an action, then take that action if legit triggered by a high-init character in the next round?

 

Mike Mearls ‏@mikemearls @chimerasame yes

 
#32

Noctaem

Jul 16, 2014 10:42:41

a round for each creature in the initiative order, in terms of readied actions or delaying your turn, lasts from the start of your turn to the start of your next turn.  So if you don't use your readied action or start your delayed turn before the start of your next turn in the initiative, the action or turn is lost.  If you decide to trigger your readied action or start your delayed turn at any time before the start of your next turn, your initiative is then changed to your new position.  In the case of a readied action you would be set in the initiative before the creature who's turn you acted on.  In the case of a delayed turn you decide if you want to start your turn before each other creatures turn and play out your turn normally.

 

 

(Reply to #32)

Jenks

Noctaem wrote:
#34

Noctaem

Jul 16, 2014 11:29:18

From what I know, yes it does.  This way you can spread out your turn throughout the round by using a move action and bonus action during your turn and your main action later for example.

(Reply to #34)

Overpromises

I do not believe that using a reaction has any effect on initiative order in 5e.

 

Delaying a turn probably would, but there is currently nothing in the Basic rules describing delaying a turn.

#36

BoldItalic

Jul 16, 2014 12:41:43

Noctaem wrote:
#37

Noctaem

Jul 16, 2014 15:28:54

You're correct in the sense that in the version of the rules found here:

 

http://wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/basicrules

 

There isn't a rule specifically for delaying your turn and the initiative order is not specified when it comes to readied actions.  Keep in mind those are the 0.1 version of the rules and not the final product that will be shipped.

#38

BoldItalic

Jul 16, 2014 15:58:44

Noctaem wrote:
#39

Chimerasame

Jul 16, 2014 19:15:34

BoldItalic wrote: