Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 NirvanS Dec 02, 2014 18:54:21	Reading through the forum, some say you can take multiple times, while others say only once.   Unlike in Elemental Adept where it actually states that you can select this fear multiply times. That language is missing for Resilient.   On on many forums talking about optimizing a specific class, some mention taking it for Wisdom and another stat.   Has there been a final ruling?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Dec 02, 2014 19:05:15	The "final ruling" is the initial ruling - the book says that only feats which state they can be taken more than once can be taken more than once, and Resilient says no such thing.   So unless your DM decides to change the rules, Resilient is a 1 time thing.
#3 bonethug0108 Dec 02, 2014 19:20:38	Yes you can only take it once and yes that is intentional. They didn't want people taking it twice(or more) and becoming practically "immune" to 90% of the effects in the game. You get one good save, and can add one. They don't want you to have all 3(with the exception of a high level rogue class feature).   That said, it's always up to the DM if they want to change it, but it is limited for a good reason.
#4 NirvanS Dec 02, 2014 19:28:12	That's what I thought.    Thanks
(Reply to #3) Macv12	bonethug0108 wrote:
#6 bonethug0108 Dec 02, 2014 22:34:32	Yeah, forgot about the Monk. Damn them and their 50 different interesting abilities that are hard to keep track of!   And I put immune in quotes to try to soften the word. I should have just said "too good at saves against most effects". Of course they will still fail some saves, but it is strictly better(as far as saves go) than taking a +2 stat bump to one stat as that moves you up only +1 in that save, while this moves you up anywhere between +2-6(and scales with level). Plus you still get +1 to a stat bump with the feat to boot.   That makes this feat very powerful and that's why it's limited to only taking it once.
#7 Macv12 Dec 02, 2014 22:36:37	Sure, but still, it's just saves. Saves are pretty good, but the cost of spending 2 or 4 of your 5 feats (Humans and Fighters are more lenient) is prohibitive. Still, a player specializing as a saving machine, at the expense of (for example) boosting DEX for damage/defense, taking CON early for HP growth, taking Sentinel for control, taking Toughness for piles of HP, or whatever, they should be allowed. A lot goes on aside from saves.   I will admit that I could be totally off-base since I haven't actually seen this in action. Maybe it's crazily better than any other defensive build. It just seems to be bad character optimization to me, and I wouldn't outlaw bad ideas in a D&D game. (I'd have no one left to play with.)
#8 bonethug0108 Dec 02, 2014 22:53:56	I'm not arguing if it's broken or not to take it more than once. I'm just explaining the design reason why you can't take it more than once(unless your DM says otherwise). I think I'd allow it if someone really wanted(but just one person and only let them take it twice).   But it is definitely a powerful option as you still get half of your normal stat bump + a VERY powerful defense mechanism. The game design assumes you won't be good at all 3 good saves and monster effects are built around the idea of different classes failing different saves at a higher rate.   If everyone in a party took it twice and had all 3 good saves it would break that premise and it'd be hard for a DM to challenge that party properly. You'd have to rely on monster with high ac and damage, and most higher level monsters will have save effects.   And again, I feel the need to stress that you get half of your normal stat bump with it. So you aren't giving up that much to get a very powerful defensive tool.
#9 LongTimeLurker Dec 03, 2014 0:14:14	bonethug0108 wrote:
#10 bonethug0108 Dec 03, 2014 0:30:13	Yes but is also gives you a chance of also bumping that +2-6 save bonus by another +1(if you bump it to an even number).   Obviously the feat favors classes that don't have constitution as a save proficiency because Con is universally useful(so everyone except the fighter, barbarian, and sorcerer). Dex is pretty universally useful also. Wis controls possibly the most important skill in the game. So the big 3 are pretty useful to bump up regardless.   And of course it's going to be a trade off. You're giving up hp, attack, dmg, and/or ac for the ability to save from nasty effects that would otherwise hamper your hp, attack, dmg, and/or ac or cause some other negative effect. So you're trading some upfront ability for a better chance at avoiding losing those abilities.   If you effectively eliminate the expected chance to lose said abilities, then you have broken the expectations of the system.
#11 mellored Dec 03, 2014 5:49:22	Paladins do pretty well with saves too.   Monk14 /Paladin6 FTW.
#12 bonethug0108 Dec 03, 2014 6:10:03	Yup but that's a level 6 class feature that's usually affecting just the paladin or the paladin and one other(and it improves at a higher level to affect more). You can get the feat at level 4. The game also doesn't assume everyone has a pally in the party.
#13 Stormborn20 Dec 03, 2014 13:51:18	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #13) Macv12	Stormborn20 wrote:
#15 bonethug0108 Dec 03, 2014 19:37:08	It breaks the game's expectation for how monsters work and how challenging they are. If you don't think a +2 is a big deal, then why are magic items limited to +3 at very rare and legendary level(and +2 at rare and very rare levels)? And that scales up to a +6.   That doesn't mean I'm against allowing it(I said I would allow one character to take it twice). I'm just explaining why it's allowed only once and why it breaks the game. It's fine if anyone wants to allow it. I'm not policing your game.
#16 Ashrym Dec 04, 2014 12:35:52	I don't allow it because it gives all 3 good saves to everyone when 2 of feats are applied and I think the intent was to avoid that in having allowed it only once.
#17 guachi Dec 05, 2014 14:07:20	If someone wants to be good at all three saves, they can play a Rogue and get to level 15. If the Rogue player wants, he can build a character that, using point buy conveniently has one odd stat - in Constituition, and then take the Resilient feat to even it out. At that point, you haven't lost anything stat wise by taking the feat.
#18 Sorxores Dec 05, 2014 7:16:17	Macv12 wrote:
#19 TheLoneRanger1979 Dec 05, 2014 14:03:30	Macv12 wrote: