Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 PaulFerris Aug 23, 2014 21:53:18	Just a quick question on the expertise skill "...At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficiency with thieves’ tools. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies...." So if I have a 1st lvl character with a 15 wis (so a +2 modifier), and I have proficiency in perception, what happens if I take expertise in perception? Will my passive perception gain a benefit to this?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Aug 23, 2014 22:23:24	Your character would have a total Wisdom (Perception) modifier of +6, and would have a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 16.
#3 2Chlorobutanal Aug 24, 2014 0:14:43	I wasn't sure about Expertise and passive checks, but I re-checked the basic rules and +6 seems to be correct.   Passive Checks are a kind of Ability Check and thus should benefit from everything that modifies any Ability Check (and the basic rules say as much).   Basic Rules p.59 wrote:
#4 PaulFerris Aug 24, 2014 0:18:01	Thanks all
(Reply to #3) teacha	Playing the adventures at gencon a thief should be investing in investigation due to its use in finding traps. Perception was not a trap option. 2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #5) BrannonB	teacha wrote:
#7 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 9:51:33	Nothing in the Investigation description even suggests it is used for traps (other than 'deduce the location of a hidden object')   Invenstigation seems more about deduction and logic (hence int) than your awareness and intuition.   People who want to use Investigation for trap finding (like myself when I first got the book, before I read it thoroughly) might be assuming that Investigation is 3.5's 'Search'.  It isn't - at least not exactly.   If the trap is hidden in such away that you need to solve a puzzle of some kind to deduce it's location from clues (Like where the arrows are sticking out of a wall, or scorch marks) then I'd say use Investigation.  If it's a simple matter of seeing where it is hidden - use Perception.   Easiest way to explain it is - Investigation is 'Sherlock Holmes'.
#8 teacha Aug 29, 2014 12:30:45	I agree with what you are saying but the three dms I had at gencon made the trap detections need investigation and not perception. I will be running adventures and allowing either skill to be used.
#9 shivafang Aug 29, 2014 12:40:35	teacha wrote: