Save or DIE! Inspiration points variant. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 WeAreDND Sep 12, 2014 23:16:48	Last saturday our party ecnountered group of Yeti and they stunned them to death! As Dungeon Master it was so frustrated for me that player can lose saving throw and unlucky dice roll can lead to death or to skip the turn (that's not fun at all)! It was a pleasant stroll with one of most active player where we started to think about this problem. First, we analyze advantages and disadvantages: Save or die pros: Atmosphere. Players can be turned to stone or die from deadly spell of a lich! Deadly. Monsters became deadly and party should always be prepared to fight the evil! Players can use it too! Powerful wizard can kill creature from single ancient spell of necromancy! This is awesome feeling for player. Cons: Player’s skip their turns. As master, I hate situation where player are useless and cannot contribute to party’s victory. Single Hold Person spell can stop player for a number of turns! Moreover, party’s cleric have to keep slots for removing such condition (it is ok to have some slots for this, but not all slots). Dependents on Avandra’s blessing (luck). We have situation where party’s druid can’t save from paralyze for 4 turns! Imagine the death spell that can kill single character just due to bad luck (don’t even think to ruin temple of Avandra ;). In our search for solving all problems but keeping the good part, we have created home rule for Inspiration Points. Variant Rule: Inspiration Points - Saves Part have Inspiration Points equal party's members quantity. Each short rest party restore the inspiration points to their maximum. Inspiration Points now is a shared resource and to spend it player must receive all party’s members approval. Inspiration Points work same as descripted in PHB but for saves, it works this way: Once per round party can use Inspiration Point to remove one condition from one character at the start of their turn.
#2 Captain_Kobold Sep 13, 2014 3:33:43	Remember that effects that take a player or monster out of the fight generally have saves every round. Its not a case of "fail one save and you're dead" unless something deals enough damage to you to kill you before you make a successful save. Luck is always going to be an issue, and a run of bad luck can kill a player, whether through failed saves from hold person or fireball, or monster attack rolls. A DM will generally have a little "wiggle room" to adjust things and prevent a TPK sometimes.
#3 BW0222 Sep 13, 2014 3:46:38	There are very few "save or die" type spells or effects in 5E. As Captain_Kobold pointed out, most lasting effects have saves each turn. That said, some systems have various effects which can be used to counter specific unlucky rolls. Many systems have action or fate points which permit the player to reroll a die. I find this useful. However... in no way would I allow this repeatedly during each rest. If you use it... it should cost you the inspiration point -- permanently. The DM always has the option of issuing more inspiration points.
#4 Uthrac Sep 13, 2014 8:08:29	Spells like Hold Person require concentration. Best way to help a fellow PC losing turns to such a spell is to damage (or kill) the enemy caster. Another house rule to consider would be extending the Help action to apply to saving throws. This gets the effected PC back into the action sooner, while still having a real action cost to the party.
#5 WeAreDND Sep 14, 2014 9:48:11	Uthrac wrote:
#6 Keendk Sep 14, 2014 12:46:57	I like the idea, but as above poster mentioned, I wouldn't let it reset at a rest. Inspiration offers a reward for doing something awesome or in character, but it offers it to the player who did it. Now I'm a socialist democracy type person so I really like the aspect of your idea where inspiration becomes a group pool. This means that if player A, who is a quiet and introvert kind of guy never does anything that amazes the table/DM but is a regular good guy that loves playing, doesn't get punished for being the person/player he is. Rather he is an equal to the rest of the group in game terms. Meanwhile player B who always have something fun up his sleeve that entertains everyone can rake in the inspiration and in that way be rewarded by being the sugar daddy to the group. Player C who is a selfish **** is not rewarded for playing his flaw "screw the group over in X way"' but the group is! (Luck has it we don't have this kind of player in our group, but I've met them at con games) I love you guys for thinking up this concept, thanks so much, I think you might have added a lot to my groups table. Last, I think the autosavesc against an effect should be at the END of a players turn. Then it's a hard choice: Do we use inspiration to roll with advantage and get to act on the turn, or do we accept not acting but are 100% sure it will work. Thats my two copper, hope it's useful.
#7 Timborama Sep 15, 2014 8:01:00	WeAreDND wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

WeAreDND

Sep 12, 2014 23:16:48

Last saturday our party ecnountered group of Yeti and they stunned them to death! As Dungeon Master it was so frustrated for me that player can lose saving throw and unlucky dice roll can lead to death or to skip the turn (that's not fun at all)!

It was a pleasant stroll with one of most active player where we started to think about this problem. First, we analyze advantages and disadvantages:

Save or die pros:

Atmosphere. Players can be turned to stone or die from deadly spell of a lich!

Deadly. Monsters became deadly and party should always be prepared to fight the evil!

Players can use it too! Powerful wizard can kill creature from single ancient spell of necromancy! This is awesome feeling for player.

Cons:
Player’s skip their turns. As master, I hate situation where player are useless and cannot contribute to party’s victory. Single Hold Person spell can stop player for a number of turns! Moreover, party’s cleric have to keep slots for removing such condition (it is ok to have some slots for this, but not all slots).

Dependents on Avandra’s blessing (luck). We have situation where party’s druid can’t save from paralyze for 4 turns! Imagine the death spell that can kill single character just due to bad luck (don’t even think to ruin temple of Avandra ;).

In our search for solving all problems but keeping the good part, we have created home rule for Inspiration Points.

Variant Rule: Inspiration Points - Saves

Part have Inspiration Points equal party's members quantity.
Each short rest party restore the inspiration points to their maximum.
Inspiration Points now is a shared resource and to spend it player must receive all party’s members approval.
Inspiration Points work same as descripted in PHB but for saves, it works this way: Once per round party can use Inspiration Point to remove one condition from one character at the start of their turn.

Captain_Kobold

Sep 13, 2014 3:33:43

Remember that effects that take a player or monster out of the fight generally have saves every round. Its not a case of "fail one save and you're dead" unless something deals enough damage to you to kill you before you make a successful save.

Luck is always going to be an issue, and a run of bad luck can kill a player, whether through failed saves from hold person or fireball, or monster attack rolls. A DM will generally have a little "wiggle room" to adjust things and prevent a TPK sometimes.

BW0222

Sep 13, 2014 3:46:38

There are very few "save or die" type spells or effects in 5E. As Captain_Kobold pointed out, most lasting effects have saves each turn.

That said, some systems have various effects which can be used to counter specific unlucky rolls. Many systems have action or fate points which permit the player to reroll a die. I find this useful. However... in no way would I allow this repeatedly during each rest. If you use it... it should cost you the inspiration point -- permanently. The DM always has the option of issuing more inspiration points.

Uthrac

Sep 13, 2014 8:08:29

Spells like Hold Person require concentration. Best way to help a fellow PC losing turns to such a spell is to damage (or kill) the enemy caster.

Another house rule to consider would be extending the Help action to apply to saving throws. This gets the effected PC back into the action sooner, while still having a real action cost to the party.

WeAreDND

Sep 14, 2014 9:48:11

Uthrac wrote:

Keendk

Sep 14, 2014 12:46:57

I like the idea, but as above poster mentioned, I wouldn't let it reset at a rest.

Inspiration offers a reward for doing something awesome or in character, but it offers it to the player who did it. Now I'm a socialist democracy type person so I really like the aspect of your idea where inspiration becomes a group pool.

This means that if player A, who is a quiet and introvert kind of guy never does anything that amazes the table/DM but is a regular good guy that loves playing, doesn't get punished for being the person/player he is. Rather he is an equal to the rest of the group in game terms.

Meanwhile player B who always have something fun up his sleeve that entertains everyone can rake in the inspiration and in that way be rewarded by being the sugar daddy to the group.

Player C who is a selfish **** is not rewarded for playing his flaw "screw the group over in X way"' but the group is! (Luck has it we don't have this kind of player in our group, but I've met them at con games)

I love you guys for thinking up this concept, thanks so much, I think you might have added a lot to my groups table.

Last, I think the autosavesc against an effect should be at the END of a players turn. Then it's a hard choice: Do we use inspiration to roll with advantage and get to act on the turn, or do we accept not acting but are 100% sure it will work.

Thats my two copper, hope it's useful.

Timborama

Sep 15, 2014 8:01:00

WeAreDND wrote: