Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FunkySpunk Jun 06, 2015 6:30:30	what's the rule on this?
#2 Macv12 Jun 06, 2015 6:37:07	It lets you add CHA to "the damage" of the spell. Scorching Ray has only one damage formula, which is applied multiple times, to whoever it hits. So Elemental Affinity should add to each ray individually.
#3 Macv12 Jun 06, 2015 6:42:57	I expect some people would only apply the extra damage once per target, to prevent focus-fire overkill. I personally don't like how multi-hit attacks and uniform per-hit damage bonuses work, doesn't make much sense in any context other than the realm of the game rules. I'd probably prefer to give an extra ray instead of applying the bonus repeatedly. Not that any rule anywhere implies such a thing.
#4 OoftaMeg Jun 06, 2015 9:28:24	I would say you always add, you are rolling 3 different attack and damage rolls.   But it's not 100% clear ... Jeremy Crawford even tweeted a response that (at least for me) doesn't give a clear answer http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/26/bonus-spell-damage/
#5 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 06, 2015 9:35:53	Seems simple to me: when you cast a spell that deals the appropriate type of damage, where the spell says "XdY" damage read it as saying "XdY+Charisma modifier" damage instead.
(Reply to #5) OoftaMeg	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #6) AaronOfBarbaria	OoftaMeg wrote:
#8 FunkySpunk Jun 06, 2015 10:31:39	Wow. How nasty is that!?!?
#9 Zardnaar Jun 06, 2015 12:24:03	FunkySpunk wrote:
#10 FunkySpunk Jun 06, 2015 13:46:53	Zardnaar wrote:
#11 RulesJD Jun 07, 2015 12:44:34	FunkySpunk wrote:
#12 QwertyAzerty Jun 08, 2015 7:41:48	the top 3 DPR king are still the greatsword paladin, greatsword fighter and the greatsword barbarian (seem to have a trend here but cannot really figure it out)   Rogue who can sneak attacke every round, fire sorcerer casting empower scorching ray lvl 9 and quicken firebolt do not even appear anywhere on those threads.   Remember that the sorcerer upcasting scorchign ray as a spell level 9 can only do it once, then he need to cast it as a spell level 8, then 7 (twice at level20) then 6(twice at level 20), then 5,4,3,2. The damage might be decent from a spell level 9 (10 rays dealing 2d6+5 each with elemental adept (that every dragon sorcerer should take) for an average of 3.666666 per dice -> 12.33333 damage per rays = 123 damage for 10 ray IF ALL 10 RAYS HIT THE TARGET.   Yes a smart sorcerer before using his spell level 9 in such a way should cast invisibility or greater invisibility on himself to gain advantage on his attacks, but even with advantage the sorcerer attack bonus is only (6proficiency+5charisma) +11. Compare to meteor swarm dealing on average 140 damage in a AoE. Or Wish allowing a lot of versatility   Then comparing that 123 damage that can be done only 1 per day, compare to the fighter who can action surge twice per short rest and all 6 superiority dice dealing 2d6+1d12+5*4*2 for an average of 138.2 damage. The fighter got other bonus he can add on top of that, magical weapon (weapon+1 are more frequent then wand of war mage+1) , feats (the sorcerer only got one feat elemental adept and it's already added).   And the fighter can do this every short rest, the sorcerer can only do it once per day.
#13 Macv12 Jun 08, 2015 9:02:03	Fighters can't cast Hold Person or fireball. (Well an EK can...not very many times.)   Sorcerers can do things fighters can literally only dream of (flying). Fighters have to be better at something. And your calculation doesn't beat the sorcerer by much...you can add a feat to it, but then you should add Hex (Magic Initiate) to the sorcerer. Throw in Hold Person if you want to be really generous, for advantage and crits. Or a number of other tricks the sorcerer can apply that a fighter can't. The comparison is not bad.   My problem is not that Scorching Ray beats everything else in the game. It's that it beats other sorcerer options so badly. Not in a GWM-style "this is the feature for melee damage" way, but in a cheesy "for some reason you get the same bonus on each little hit as you would have got on one big hit" way. It reacts very strongly with per-hit damage bonuses and it makes other spells cry.   Though I don't like those types of bonuses in any system; they don't make sense. Like in Fallout 3, where the sneak attack bonus on shotgun attacks makes them do a billion damage and one-shot anything. Because oops, non-scaling bonus to all projectiles. Oh well, shotguns are an iconic weapon of sneaky assassin types, right?
#14 jaelis Jun 08, 2015 9:10:11	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #13) QwertyAzerty	Macv12 wrote:
#16 Macv12 Jun 08, 2015 18:33:14	I'm not saying the sorcerer is too strong. Nor that the fighter is weak. Fighters fight. They do damage and take it. They slay dragons. That's mostly it. If a sorcerer could do that job better than a fighter, while still handling lots of other obstacles (fly only costs one spell slot), that would be bad, so it's a good thing that the fighter comes out shining in that comparison.   Fireball is a good comparison. You can add the same damage bonus several times that way, too, so I guess it's not so lopsided. I just don't like the game-y feel of adding damage several times just because a thing involved several hit rolls.   But I'm probably whining over nothing. Catch me in a different context and I'll be saying that Scorching Ray's implementation is needed to fill a particular nitch in the spell list and it's lovely and simple design or whatever. Or advocating for a re-jiggering that makes the sorcerer's bonus damage flatter across different kinds of spells. So...don't mind me.
#17 Ilse Jun 08, 2015 19:35:18	A Mavv12 said above, I think the problem here is the same as with Empowered Evocation and Magic Missile (and it's actually worse in that case). The problem is that the bonus becomes so significant compared to the basic damage that (not even speaking of balance because YGMV) it makes it THE option that you have to take to look efficient (otherwise you just appear as being an idiot). When one option appears so singularly better than all others, then you know that either game design went wrong or you are making a wrong interpretation.   Now, in this case, the only things that we have are unclear rules and a tweet so badly written that you can't even be sure that it's responding to the question asked. Just ask what your DM's interpretation is going to be, and don't argue with him, the only thing that I can predict is that whatever the result of the argument is it will not make the game more enjoyable. Hopefully, we'll get some comprehensible official ruling at some point in time...
(Reply to #16) QwertyAzerty	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #18) Macv12	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #19) QwertyAzerty	Macv12 wrote:
#21 Macv12 Jun 10, 2015 7:23:48	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #21) QwertyAzerty	Macv12 wrote:
#23 jaelis Jun 10, 2015 16:08:00	Wow, Macv wins via errata!
#24 Ilse Jun 10, 2015 17:30:05	And I win on Empowered Evocation ! Same kind of reason.
#25 Noctaem Jun 10, 2015 18:02:31	Ilse wrote:
(Reply to #23) Macv12	jaelis wrote:
#27 Ocule Jun 13, 2015 14:20:55	I'd love to know what the hell they were thinking with that erratta. Its hard to pick out the shared information from this massive wall of text but i really am not seeing the logic in it. Seemed to me that spells that attack more than once was sort of a perk of being a caster. It let evokers and sorcerers do relevent amounts of damage compared with fighters and barbarians for focusing on a single bad guy. If anything this erratta is freakishly meta and it doesnt feel like im adding my modifier to damage like other characters but im just sticking them with a 1 time use bonus damage per spell. It feels weird and unnecessary.
#28 Ilse Jun 14, 2015 5:00:25	Ocule wrote:
#29 Undrhil Jun 14, 2015 17:20:23	I would just like to know who here believes that a Sorcerer casting Scorching Ray on 1 target was doing too much damage by adding +5 per ray to the same target.  Anyone?
(Reply to #29) AaronOfBarbaria	Undrhil wrote:
#31 Ilse Jun 15, 2015 13:35:04	Undrhil wrote:
#32 mellored Jun 16, 2015 9:58:59	Undrhil wrote:
#33 Noctaem Jun 16, 2015 10:13:20	mellored wrote:
#34 Kalani Jun 16, 2015 10:40:35	mellored wrote:
#35 CahPahkah Jun 16, 2015 12:44:15	Undrhil wrote:
#36 Ilse Jun 16, 2015 14:28:27	CahPahkah wrote:
#37 Noctaem Jun 16, 2015 17:12:31	Yeah, magic missile killing Tiamat at full power or basically any other deity in...  5 casts?  Less?  Yeah totally working as intended! lol
#38 Psikerlord Jun 17, 2015 4:47:01	My ruling is if you have to roll to hit, you get the bonus damage for each hit roll. If you only roll to hit once, you only get it once. If you roll to hit 3 times with scorching ray, each time you hit you add the bonus. Similar to an archer shooting, they get their dex bonus each time they hit. Anything less than that would be UP.
#39 mellored Jun 17, 2015 5:38:39	Psikerlord wrote:
#40 Soulmancer Jun 17, 2015 10:10:39	According to the new errata it only effects one damage role of each spell. Would be DM rule if it was to do otherwise.
(Reply to #39) Sorsohka	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #39) Sorsohka	mellored wrote:
#43 mellored Jun 18, 2015 6:25:33	Sorcerer's can fly, cast fireball, turn invisible, teleport, paralize people, dominate people, create walls of fire or stone, and cast wish.   Fighters can deal damage. It's ok if the fighter is better at it.
(Reply to #43) Sorsohka	mellored wrote:
#45 RCanine Jun 18, 2015 9:15:29	Sorsohka wrote:
#46 Byakugan01 Jun 21, 2015 7:58:03	Just a little nit-pick.  3.5/PF wizards and sorcs were not OP because of any direct damage spell.  Direct damage spells in those editions were humongous traps and only bad players ever used them. They were OP because they had a litany of spells that did  not allow saves and allowed for  easy battlefield control.    5e goes the other way, making controling spells bad in most cases, killing all the save-or die/suck spells, and pushing d6 based damage spells above the regular damage curve.
#47 Kithas48 Jun 23, 2015 15:58:01	I understand nerfing SR and MM with the errata, or to be more precise bringing it back to what was intended. What I don't understand is its' affect on spells that last more than one round, why is melf's getting hit so hard? Elemental weapon? Call Lightning? Storm Cloud? etc. Basically what I am asking is why not; "Once per turn, or once per spell, whichever is higher." That way your scorching ray/magic missile only adds your Cha once, while something like call lightning can drop a bolt every turn and take advantage of the damage. And if you manage to drop two spells in a turn both get your Cha!
#48 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 23, 2015 19:47:43	If magic missile and scorching ray aren't intended to have more than one instance of ability modifier added to their total damage, why would you think that spells like melf's acid arrow are intended to have more than one instance of ability modifier damage?
#49 mellored Jun 24, 2015 5:15:30	Ranger get's favored enemy at 6 and hide in plane sight at 10.   Sorcerer's and evokers have no room to complain.
(Reply to #49) Sorsohka	mellored wrote:
#51 Orc_Barrons Jun 25, 2015 12:57:18	I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
(Reply to #37) Coredump00	Noctaem wrote:
#53 Kalani Jun 25, 2015 20:00:38	Coredump00 wrote:
#54 Yunru Jun 29, 2015 17:19:27	The problem is that the problem wasn't with Elemental Affinity (which is what got hit unnecessarily), it was with Scorching Ray. To nerf Elemental Affinity as they did (and yes, despite what they say it's a nerf not "clarification", Ele Affinity had no unclarity) just hits spells like Melf's Minature Meteors hard, whilst Scorching Ray just goes "Oh well, Hex/Hold Person" and carries on.
#55 Noctaem Jun 29, 2015 18:27:00	Kalani wrote:
#56 mellored Jun 29, 2015 20:36:02	if you kill 20 kobolds with a fireball, you can't really complain you didn't have your moment to shine.
#57 Lilika Jun 30, 2015 7:34:23	I was just thinking last night about a situation where a Sorcerer cast Hypnotic Pattern.  Assuming all the enemies in a given room fail there save, then one by one picks them off with the pre-errata Scorching Ray, telling the rest of the party to take a smoke break cus he has this.
#58 Kalani Jun 30, 2015 8:32:43	Hypnotic Pattern is awesome. I picked it and Leomund's Tiny Hut as my two 3rd level spells. I didn't pick fireball until 6th level. I still haven't learned haste or fly as of yet and I am now 8th level. Why cast haste when I can HP the entire group and have the fighters focus fire on any that make their save?
(Reply to #58) Yunru	Kalani wrote:
#60 Kalani Jun 30, 2015 10:43:52	I cast that too - however the reason to cast HP is the fact that tiny hut has a 1min casting time making it only practical if you can set up an ambush or can lure the enemy to a prearranged choke point