Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 demon_idol Oct 08, 2014 23:07:28	The spell descripton for shatter says that creatures made of inorganic material suffer disadvantge on their saving throw. Technically, air and fire are inorganic, so would air elementals, invisible stalkers, smoke mephits, etc. suffer disadvantage?  Similarly, what about incorporeal undead?
#2 paulstrait Oct 08, 2014 23:16:25	Air and fire contain carbon...  But in any event, I think the "such as stone, crystal, or metal" provides enough sense about what is intended by the spell.  "Inorganic material" isn't a D&D-defined category.  So, a power like this is going to inherently require some DM judgment.
#3 demon_idol Oct 09, 2014 23:15:43	Steel contains much more carbon than air. (The atmosphere of this planet contains only 0.0397% CO2, while steel can contain an approximate range of 0.1 to 7% carbon. Fire would only 'contain' carbon if it were released as a reaction by product of the thing that was being burned. Fire elementals do not need to burn organic things to exist, so would not necessarily 'contain' carbon.   In any case, diamonds are made of carbon, and are certainly inorganic and seem a prime target for the spell, though organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbony things, I would guess that the spell is refering to things that made of miable living flesh or plant material as organic.   Which leaves a number of creatures in limbo. Earth elementals? Water elementals (H2O-- no carbon there)?   In a sense, a spectre, shadow, or wraith is derived from a living thing, but it is absolutely not made out of a living thing, but rather is a metaphysical entity. One could see cacaphonic, dissonant vibrations in the air being unpleasant to such entities, but is that unpleasantness of such a degree as to impose disadvantage on the creatures saving throw?   It probably would have been better if instead of saying 'things made out of inorganic material', the spell description said 'rigid creatures that could actually shatter into little pieces, such as animated suits of armor, stone golems, skeletons, earth elementals, and demiliches'. Note the inclusion of demiliches.
#4 EzechielDantan Oct 10, 2014 0:07:29	GM's call I guess, If you treat the elemental s a living creature rather than unliving (like a golem) I would not have it take disadvantage. If you rather think it is unliving, animated matter then you have it take disadvantage. Personally I'd not include elementals, but golems I would. A bit arbitrary maybe, but I think it is RAI.
#5 2Chlorobutanal Oct 10, 2014 0:11:51	I'd probably give an Earth, ice, glass, rock, or gem Elemental or Construct disadvantage, because those are densely-packed and fairly structured kinds of material.   Fire, Water and Air Elementals get a pass from me because they are inherently formed of "looser" materials.