Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 MightyRoot Sep 17, 2014 20:49:49	Would a quarterstaff under the effects of the Shillelagh cantrip deal 1d8 damage with the extra attack granted by the Polearm Master feat? The feat says the butt-end attack deals 1d4 damage, the cantrip says it changes the weapon's damage die. Is the d4 considered a weapon die?
#2 2Chlorobutanal Sep 17, 2014 21:04:27	It's sort of a race condition with no clear answer.   If I'm paraphrasing correctly from memory, the Polearm Master feat says "the weapon's die for this attack is d4."  The shillelagh spell says "use d8 instead of the usual damage die."   One person may interpret this to mean "the weapon die" becomes d4 and then d8.   Another person may interpret this to mean "the weapon die" of d4 is not usual (or normal, or regular - I forget the specific wording), so it is not changed to d8.   Yet another person may interpret this to mean "the weapon die" first becomes d8 and then becomes d4.
#3 lawrencehoy Sep 17, 2014 21:56:16	I think the Polearm Master feat is basically allowing the butt end of the polearm to be used as an improvised weapon, so it is a d4. I don't think Shillelagh was intended to be used with improvised weapons.
#4 Moot_Dundle Sep 18, 2014 0:54:56	Here is an idea that I'm not in love with but might use it as a house rule. The spell shillelagh raises the damege die by one place from d6 to d8. Raise the the d4 by one step to d6. All attacks are magical. Moot Dundle
#5 mellored Sep 18, 2014 5:12:57	I would say d8.
#6 Plaguescarred1 Sep 18, 2014 5:25:43	IMO the secondary end would deal 1d8 since its still damage from a quaterstaff, which shillelagh alters.
#7 Timborama Sep 18, 2014 5:50:42	This is one of those weird cases of 2 different specific vs. general variations. I call them "specific vs. specific."   I think these things are left up to the DM (and the party as a whole, really) to decide.   In this case, though, I'd say the d8 works for "both ends" as it were. Why? Because both the feat AND the spell say "weapon damge die" and it is still considered making an attack with the quarterstaff (just using the "butt end" as a fluff reference, essentially)
#8 Whir Sep 18, 2014 10:08:46	I would say it would be d4. To me, it's a matter of precedence. When you use a feat to take an action, that feat is the last thing in the chain of affects to your damage. The feat says that the damage die is a d4 and does bludgeoning, so no matter what the Shillelagh has done to the quarterstaff, using that feat to make a second attack deals d4 bludgeoning.   YMMV
#9 Yunru Sep 18, 2014 10:13:40	I, on the other hand, would say it's quite clearly the other way (not having looked over the specific wording). The butt-end does 1d4 damage. That is the weapon's damage die, it is the defined damage done by the weapon. Shillelagh changes the damage die, thus it becomes 1d8.
#10 MightyRoot Sep 18, 2014 11:27:19	Timborama wrote:
#11 miles2912 Sep 18, 2014 11:49:22	The feat says that you get a d4 with opposite end of the weapon.  It does not say you get full wepon damamge twice.  The big bonus with Shillelagh is you get to use your Wis for attack and damage (assuming Druid here).  I would add that to the d4.   The spell modifies the weapon.  So your quarterstaff goes from a d6 to a d8 and you use Wis to attack/damamge.  The feat tells you how you can use the weapon.  You get a bonus attack with a d4 damamge.  This is not 2 wpn fighting so I would add Wis damamge to the d4.
#12 StuleBrown Sep 18, 2014 12:33:39	I would say d8.
#13 knightserpent Sep 18, 2014 14:41:46	Quarter staff is also versatile isn't it? What happens if it is two handed under the effect of the spell?
#14 Uchawi Sep 18, 2014 15:42:59	The cantrip was a mistake from the very beginning. I complained about it in the playtest. It bypasses attributes all together when considering how most classes depend on dex or strength to hit. And once you have a loophole everything starts taking advantage of it. That includes the issue of just making a weapon magical, versus making the damage dice constant.
#15 lawrencehoy Sep 18, 2014 21:56:17	Yunru wrote:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1900-D-D-5th-Edition-Sage-Advice-from-Designers-Mearls-Crawford#.VBw5T35HarU#ixzz3DlrMqFP5 E-Tallitnics Sep 19, 2014 7:14:20	If I cast Shillelagh on my quarterstaff and have Polearm Master feat, does the bonus attack deal d4 or d8? The bonus attack would use a d4. I like it: druid master of polearms. -J Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1900-D-D-5th-Edition-Sage-Advice-from-Designers-Mearls-Crawford#.VBw5T35HarU#ixzz3DlrMqFP5
#17 Mind_Flayer_Monk Sep 19, 2014 20:46:52	If you have a +1 venomous quarterstaff, does the +1 and/or venomous apply to the bonus attack?
#18 E-Tallitnics Sep 19, 2014 22:15:11	Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote: