Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Myztek Aug 15, 2014 14:30:50	In 4E we had specific rules to handle a push/pull/slide that sent an enemy over a cliff.  I did not spot similar rules in this edition.  Did I miss something?   I am comfortable making house rules to address the situation as necessary - I'm just wondering if I missed an existing rule.
#2 reddaemon Aug 15, 2014 14:37:14	I think they intentionally left it open to DM interpretation.  My take on it is that since it doesn't mention otherwise, you get pushed off a cliff you fall, no save.  But it doesn't say that you don't get a save, so the DM is perfectly within their right to allow a Dex save to catch your fall if they deem it fair.  Just remember whatever applies to the PCs will very likely apply to NPCs as well.  Keep that in mind when you are making your case one way or the other.
#3 silentdante Aug 15, 2014 14:45:19	there are push rules in the PHB, i am not sure if they are in basic, but they are page 195.
#4 Myztek Aug 15, 2014 15:01:13	Right - to clairfy, I'm talking about specific rules that address situations in which the push/shove/forced movement/whatever you want to call it results in an opponent going over a cliff, into a fire, etc...  AFAICT, reddaemon is correct and there are no special rules coming into play, like in 4E, that would give the opponent an ability to resist the push.   In my upcoming games, there may be a significant amount of fighting on ships.  There are a few ways to generate 10 foot pushes.  There are not a lof of places above deck on a ship where a 10 foot push would not be disasterous.  I would consider it 'unfun' to have every combat become a push-fest.  Accordingly, I want to know if there are already rules that anticipate and limit this tactic, as in 4E, or if this is something I will wish to address as necessary through home rules.  All I'm looking for here is confirmation that I'm not missing a "if shoved off a cliff, then..." rule in the PHB.
#5 silentdante Aug 15, 2014 22:50:40	Myztek wrote:
#6 Sherman Aug 15, 2014 22:38:02	What reddaemon said. I think a lot of things are intentionally left up to the DM. Push someone who's on a narrow ledge, probably let them fall. Push someone on a balcony with a 3' railing, maybe you have to beat them by five to actually get them up and over it, maybe no chance with a dwarf, etc. Hard and fast rules make for boring play, loose rules make for thoughtful play and require you to use your imagination.
#7 Zerik0 Aug 16, 2014 5:04:09	The main difference that I have noticed so far, and what my friend and I discovered while playtesting in preparation for a campaign, is that 5E are so streamlined in some places that people who are used to PF, 3.5 or 4E are going to get hung up on some things because they're looking too far into it.   Until the DMG comes out that details more tactical combat rule options... I plan to use the K.I.S.S. approach.   1.  Shove roll. 2.  Save roll. 3.  If failed and targetted creatures moves into X square (water on side of boat)... splash.   That being said, the best thing about any tabletop is the ability for the DM/GM to make or break rules to move the game along and create the fun.
(Reply to #7) OoftaMeg	Zerik0 wrote:
#9 shivafang Aug 16, 2014 9:44:32	silentdante wrote:
#10 mellored Aug 16, 2014 17:28:46	Myztek wrote:
#11 UnknownMourner Aug 17, 2014 11:25:25	Fourth edition had a nice rule for this.   If forced movement moves someone into a cruddy square (as our team called it a "d*ck move"), they get a save to have the option to fall prone instead.   It worked out well. If you wanted ot push someone into lava instead of further down the tunnel, you could, but they'd get a chance to negate it.
#12 Myztek Aug 17, 2014 16:35:03	OP here.  So we're in agreement that there is no specific anti-forced movement rule like in 4E, although obviously the DM always has the ability to just toss something in to meet a perceived need.   A 'save to avoid' rule was added to 4E, according to the designers, because there was a lot of forced movement and they perceived there to be less ways to aoid disaster if you were pushed off something big (less flight to get back, etc...).  It may not be truly universally necessary in 5E, but I personally wish they'd maintained this nuance as there is a lot of forced movement in these basic rules - including ways to deliver it every round.
#13 silentdante Aug 17, 2014 18:33:28	Myztek wrote: