Hello! I have a question regarding the spell, Silent Image:
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Silent Image
1st-level illusion
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a bit o f fleece)
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes
You create the image o f an object, a creature, or some
other visible phenomenon that is no larger than a 15-foot
cube. The image appears at a spot within range and
lasts for the duration. The image is purely visual; it isn't
accompanied by sound, smell, or other sensory effects.
You can use your action to cause the image to move to
any spot within range. As the image changes location,
you can alter its appearance so that its movements
appear natural for the image. For example, if you create
an image o f a creature and move it, you can alter the
image so that it appears to be walking.
Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an
illusion, because things can pass through it. A creature
that uses its action to examine the image can determine
that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence
(Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a
creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the creature
can see through the image.
----
Emphasis mine.
How would this spell work if I decided to create a cloud of fog (or even darkness)? If an enemy enters the fog, do they immediately realize it is an illusion (because "Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion" - despite the fact that a fog cloud isn't really all that interactable in the first place)? Perhaps I'm just trying to work this spell into a lower level (and arguably better) version of the Darkness spell, but I was hoping to get an opinion on it.
Examples of use for a fog cloud illusion:
* Ranged PCs shoot at enemies outside the cloud. PCs can see the enemy, the enemy can't see the PCs.
* Melee combat inside the cloud. The PC can see the enemy (because he can see through his own illusion) but the enemy can't see him.
The above is assuming the spell works the way I inferred it.
Thoughts?
Thank you!
I could see the "physical interaction" with a fog cloud revealing to the creature inside it that there is no moisture to it; thereby, giving them enough awareness to "disbelieve" the illusion.
Illusory darkness could be similar; imagine trying to see into very dark shaded areas, but being able to see out of them just fine (once your eyes become adjusted).
And no movement. A fog reacts to people walking through it. It also reacts to the small winds that are always occuring.
Coredump00 wrote:
Any physical interaction with the illusion reveals it as just that, an illusion. It doesn't matter what the illusion you create is, any physical interaction reveals it as just that, an illusion. Can't be much more clear.
Noctaem wrote:
Kodor wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Kodor wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Kodor wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
You have to admit that the spell saying that any physical interaction reveals it to be an illusion, in black and white. And you saying that the spell isn't revealed as an illusion even though there's been physical interaction is a contradiction. You're resting your claim on the fact that DM's can and should make rulings at their table. I'm not going to argue against that, I'm just saying the spell gives a very clear way as to how the illusion can be automatically detected.
EDIT: To cover the things you put in via edit yourself, I don't think it really matters that you don't believe your illusion spell on your sword would be revealed simply by touching it. That's what the spell says happens. Should we give credence to someone who says they don't believe they should be affected by fireball because they are the ones casting it even though they are standing in the area of effect (if you remember this is a pun to a thread about that very subject some months back)? I mean, I get that you don't like that it directly states any physical interaction reveals the illusion regardless of how creative the use of the spell is. And if a DM was to rule in a way that it didn't automatically happen, I would probably be ok with it so long as it didn't screw over the players in some way. I'm just saying, it's pretty direct 
Kodor wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Kodor wrote:
Not to mention then you have PCs throwing rocks at every flipping tapestry they find!!!
Danny_Montanny wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
Heres a question: If like the OP said, it was used it to create a cloud of darkness to be used for cover, or to hide something from enemies, if the enemies outside the cloud tried to see what was in the cloud of darkness, would they be blinded? And if not, logically assume that something is off?
Coolossus2123 wrote:
Ahh that makes sense! The only thing is, wouldn't they only get blinded if they were inside the cloud of darkness, and tried to see something obscured by it? Perhaps I misunderstood the errata, and how it functions mechanically for heavily obscured areas, but it says "Vision and Light (p. 183). A heavily obscured area doesn’t blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it". What is your take on it? That is to say, how does the blinded status function and activate in heavily obscured areas, and what is the duration? I was thinking it was either 1. You are not blinded while in a heavily obscured area, but you become blinded if you try to see something obscured by it, but once you look away from it you are no longer blinded? Or 2. You are not blinded while in a heavily obscured area, but you become blinded if you try to see something obscured by it, and you remain blinded until you are out of the heavily obscured area? Another question is, how does this relate when you are OUT of a heavily obscured area, but try to see something in one in front of you, for example, a cloud of darkness (either real or illusionary). Are you blinded then? And if so, does option 1. or option 2. apply? I asked a more simplified question on Noctaem's stealth guide (which was very helpful!) so I'm just trying to piece this all together.
Any time you attack something you can't see, you have disadvantage, and any time something you can't see attacks you, it had advantage. That's half the Blinded condition already. The other half is "fails any checks related to seeing things." So a normal character might get to make a Perception check to spot a camouflaged enemy, or make out a sign from far away. Not if you're blinded.
So half of Blinded is redundant because advantage/disadvantage always work that way when you can't see something, and half is a pretty obvious "you can't roll to see something it's physically impossible to see." If you're blinded "with respect to" something, those two points apply to that thing. You have disadvantage to hit it, it had advantage to hit you, and you can't succeed at any check to see it. You aren't universally blinded just because one thing is hidden from you, though. You don't go in and out of the blinded condition depending on what you want to see. You either can see a specific thing, or you can't. That alone doesn't affect anything else you can see.
If you have a dark dome over you, there are quite a lot of things you can't see (you're "blinded with respect to" those things), but things you logically should be able to see (like your feet, probably), you can see. If there's a dark wall to your right, and an enemy behind that wall, you could still see a different enemy coming up from in front of you even when trying to look at the enemy behind the wall. You aren't totally Blinded by it.
If you are in the heavily obscured area, you're blinded (under most circumstances) until you're no longer in a heavily obscured area. If you're not in a heavily obscured area and attempting to perceive anything in the heavily obscured area, you're effectively blinded to perceive anything in the heavily obscured area.
The biggest biggest change to the general rules come with light, not actual physical phenomena that impress your vision (fog, foliage, weather, ect.). If we were standing at opposite ends of a 100 foot dark (heavily obscured) hallway, we wouldn't be able to see each other. We would both have the blinded condition in regard to each other. Now, if I lit a torch, I'm no longer blinded in regard to whatever my torch light casts, but everything out of the light I'm effectively blind to (including you). You would be blind to everything except in regard to what was in the radius of my torchlight (including me). Just try to think of it in natural terms and the game mechanics will follow. Think, "would I be able to see in this situation (considering darkvision, of course)?"
Thanks you two!
Here's a question that I have about this now, would the creature inside already reveal the illusion from the start as it's touching (i.e. physically interacting with) the creature?