Both.
Page 139 describes the general rule for magical scrolls.
Page 200 describes the specific rule for spell scrolls which makes an exception to that general rule.
Page 199 describes scrolls of protection, which follow the general rule of magical scrolls, and are often overlooked when this question arises (this is twice now I've answered this very question myself, and I'm sure others have answered it too).
+1 and the spell scroll has the 2nd, important, phrase "and cast its spell". So any character can read any arcane script on a scroll but only in the case of a protection scroll or if the spell is in the class list will they activate it.
I think the line on p.139 may be intended to clarify that scrolls are not in any particular language. If you can use any language, you 'can' read one.
Limond wrote:
A fighter, rogue or monk can't use a spell scroll. Others can but only if the spell appears in their class list.
Limond wrote:
dafrca wrote:
Limond wrote:
Limond wrote:
Not trying to Hijack here, but I do think I can add to this conversation and I feel it is related to OP's original question.
Would someone care to elaborate on the way they handle the rules as explained on page 200 when used in conjunction with a Rogues UMD (Use Magical Device) skill at 13th level.
Example: A 13th Level Rogue (Thief) finds a scroll of Power Word Kill (9th lvl Wizard Spell).
Let's look at the part of the of the rules as explained on page 200 in the DMG...
If the spell is on your class's spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effects.
Now lets looks at UMD in the PHB...
By 13th level, you have learned enough about the workings of magic that you can improvise the use of items even when they are not intended for you. You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items.
So how do you apply this to your game? Are people interpreting this as a 13th level Rogue being able to just automatically successfully cast the spell scroll Power Work kill where as a 13th level Wizard would have to make the ability check? It just seems greatly flawed to have a Rogue outperform a spell caster in their field of expertise.
Lets now take a look at page 141 in the DMG..
A magic item, such as certain staffs may require you to use your own spellcasting ability when you cast a spell from the item. If you don't have a spellcasting ability-perhaps you're a rogue with UMD-your spellcasting ability modfier is +0 for and your proficiency bonus does apply.
This tells me that you do in fact need to roll when using the UMD feature to cast a spell scroll that involves a spell of a higher level than you can normally cast. It would appear simply erroneous to assume some form of auto success. So the rule towards UMD as far as I see them declares that a Rogue-thief archetype would need to roll the ability check to see if they can even cast a spell scroll containing a 1st level spell. (Unless of course you had an optional multi-class character like a Rogue/Wizard)
But, let me play devils advocate to myself here. Lets say you refute my interpretation in its entirely and believe that the 13th lvl Rogue-Thief can always auto cast 9th lvl spell scrolls without ever having to roll ability checks to see if failure occurs. I would assume you would do this by using the arguement; "With the Rogue's UMD feature you can ignore ALL LEVEL REQUIREMENTS
".
Now lets shift to the wand of fireballs in the DMG...
The rules state for 1 charge you can cast a 3rd level version of the spell fireball.
Again, my hope would be that folks are not interpreting UMD as allowing you to cast 9th level versions of the spell fireball based on an argument of ignoring all level requirments.granted by UMD.
But, lets see.. What are your thoughts? I would appreciate any insight as to how people are handling this.
Specific beats general in 5e rules, so the general rule regarding magic items in UMD is trumped by the specific rule of the Spell Scroll. That would be my take, anyway.
[Edit]: Same with the wand which trumps UMD.
El_Condoro wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
The consequences of this approach, though, is that the Thief becomes the one who should get all Spell Scrolls that are found by the party: he can read it no matter what the spell is, and he can cast it at any level, without any chance of failure. That seems unfair to the real casters in the party and overpowered.
I wonder, do Spell Scrolls have the requirements of class, race and level anyway?
Class - no class is mentioned as being required to use one
Race - no race is required
Level - no level is required
The only requirement is that the user of the scroll has a spell list that the scroll's spell is part of, although that could be argued as a class requirement. That's a specific requirement that is not covered by UMD and would mean a Thief could not use a Scroll Spell. If a player wants a rogue that can use Spell Scrolls he needs to opt for Arcane Trickster and get a wizard spell on a Spell Scroll. To me, that makes more sense.
No, the thief doesn't become the one who should get all spell scrolls - some of them will go to other characters because it is likely that they will have the Action to use it to spare when the rogue won't, and others will be held onto by a wizard in the party so that they can be scribed into a spellbook and cast far more than just the once the rogue could manage.
And since your spell list is determined by your class, it isn't something that "can be argued" is a class requirement, it's the definition of one.