Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 basilbur Sep 15, 2014 18:38:18	Pp. 114 of the PHB says that "use your Intelligence whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability."     What are some examples of spells that refer to spellcasting ability as opposed to a DC for a saving throw?   The same pages says,    "Spell Save DC = 8 + prof. bonus + Int. modifier.   "   and   "Spell attack modifier = prof. bonus + Int. Modifier."   An then on pp. 178 and 179 Spell Casting Ability is described, saying,    "Wizards use Intelligence as their spellcasting ability, which helps determine the saving throw DCs of spells they cast."   It all seems kinda redundant.  In what way does Int, Wis or Cha "help determine".  Is that merely a reference to the Ability Score modifier?
#2 Plaguescarred1 Sep 15, 2014 20:17:32	No you usually use the ability score's modifier to determine Spell DC and attack bonus. The reason its written this way is to illustrate that proficiency bonus is factored in.   Spells like Bigby's Hand. Counterspell, Cure Wounds, Dispel Magic, Healing Word, Heroism to name a few...directly refers to your spellcasting ability.
#3 Llenlleawg Sep 16, 2014 3:29:38	I think one of the reasons the phrase "spellcasting ability" gets used is that, occasionally, a spell which is not normally part on the list of one class can be used by that class (e.g. thunderwave for a Tempest domain cleric). For such a cleric, the spellcasting ability is Wisdom, rather than Intelligence.
#4 Timborama Sep 16, 2014 9:44:25	The wording is left open-ended for a reason. Namely, Bards.   But feats allow you to learn any Cantrip or any 1st level spell (though the feat ALSO specifies the Spell Casting Ability modifier to use). Same for High Elves who can learn any cantrip (using INT as their casting ability). Another feat allows you to learn any ritual.   This design feature also allows for flexibility of the spell and spell description for FUTURE classes and races, too! So an exclusive Cleric spell might get picked up as a "Favored One" spell, but the Favored One might use Charisma, instead. No need to clarify or re-write the spell. Why? Because it's a blank template :-)
#5 Grazel Sep 16, 2014 17:40:12	Spell descriptions refer to Spellcasting Ability rather than a specific ability because they're not class specific and different classes use different abilities for their spellcasting ability. This lets the same spell description be used for a WIS caster and an INT caster. The classes make note of what that class' spellcasting ability is then show the formula for that class to do a save DC and an attack roll.
#6 basilbur Sep 16, 2014 17:50:30	Thanks, I appreciate all the responses.  I also found 'Counterspell' on pp. 228 that references Spellcasting ability.  I also realized that using a neutral term like spellcasting ability allows you to compared a Wizards' intelligence to a Cleric's Wisdom for example.