Okay so i was playing in a game today online and i cast Shatter spell it states the following in the book for this spell.
2nd level: evocation
Shatter
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 Feet
Component: VSM (Chip of mica)
A sudden loud ringing noise, painfully intense, erupts from a point of your choice within range. Each creature in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Constitution saving throw. Acreature takes 3d8 thunder damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature made of in-organic material such as stone, crystal, or metal has disadvantage on this saving throw. A nonmagical object that isn't being worn or carried also takes the damage if it's in the spell's area.
Okay so the following debait came up on where the spell center must be as it list's it clearly as a point.
I said well if its a point even if you are using a grid system you should be able to put the point anywhere on the map with in its range.
The dm disagreed with me and said no it has to be centered on the middle of a 5 foot square.
So after reading this what do you lot think?
I have also sent a twitter to the question team to get a some clarification on the point of origin but i would like to hear what other dm's and players think about this.
DMG pg 251 suggests that when you're playing on a grid, area effects should be centered on a grid intersection point. But in general this is something the DM decides, I wouldn't have argued.
Assuming only PHB rules, the DM in question is wrong; unless a spell specifically states otherwise, the caster can decide to place its point of origin anywhere within the spell's range.
jaelis wrote:
Rules in the DMG are optional and under the DM's purview.
When determining the area of effect for a spell in 5E if you are using a grid and using the grid to determine creatures affected, the point of origin for a spell like this is an intersection of lines.
He's probably thinking of the 4E rule that the center of origin was always a square.
So I rule that a 10 ft radius sphere generally looks something like
xx xxxx xxxx xx
Start at an intersection, and draw a circle out. Any square less than 50% covered is unaffected
For grid play in 5e, the point of origin should be an intersection. 4e area effects were measured in spaces, not feet, and centering 5e areas anywhere except an intersection is going to create borders that fill only a portion of a square. This will necessitate a consistent ruling on whether a creature is affected if the effect only fills half a square, rendering AEs more or less powerful than intended.
Requiring spells be centered in the middle of a square is going to have further reaching effects than he may anticipate. If I were you, I would try to convince him of this before next session.
TBH our DM is fairly chill and until i brought it up i don't think he had thought about it much since it worked differently back in 3.5 or so him and my friend who has played for a long time says. i only just started playing in the last year and mostly 4e so i am new ish to 5e. so i do question things more and look things up.
so it seems to me that having a new player in a game is a good thing for the game as they can see thing's other long time players would just brush over as it worked like this in that eddition of the game.
Anyway keep on adding people yet to post as the ruling may be done via this if sage advice do not get back to us by next week.
New Question related to this one.
Okay firstly here is a link that shows some templates you can print off for a live game. Link
Okay i know we are using a grid system but the spell says Sphere so does that mean that as long as the spheres on there cover half a square they will hit the target?
I ask this because the templetes where made for the 3.5e of the game not the 5e and i dunno how spells are worded in 3.5e but i kinda think it would look strange if a spell with the discption of sphere was not shaped that way. but at the same time i can understand that if it did not cover half or more of a square they could dodge said spell.
Also in my understanding it could be possible also depending on there size that even with half a square covered they could stand on the overside. although i think that would need one of the following house rules to make that fair for both the DM and the players.
House Rule 1. You can use your reaction to take a step back.
or
House Rule 2. You can make a dc 10 dex save to step out of the spells range as a reaction.
Okay it makes the game little more complicated but if you want the spell to miss squares even with it covering half or more due to a template made for 3.5e something should be inplace. atleast that how i feel on the matter.
FarBeyondC wrote:
jaelis wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
jaelis wrote:
MasterNamer wrote:
The basic assumption when using a grid that I use is that a creature that occupies More than half a square affected by an AOE is affected. Drawing out from an intersection makes determining that easier.
Orethalion wrote:
MasterNamer wrote:
I wouldn't overcomplicate AoE with adding houserules.
The DM has the power to determine advantage and disadvantage anyway, so if anything, if there is for example an AoE spell with Dex saving throws (there are quite many), then it's completely within the rules for the DM to determine someone right at the impact center has disadvantage and someone at the very edge has advantage on the saving throw.
I don't necessarily agree there are situations where you HAVE to change the rules. If anything, the rules aren't clear so the DM must make an interpretation that makes sense.
How would you rule the Area for ice knife? It targets a creature, then affects all those within 5ft. Would you say the area of effect is a cross or a square?
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
MasterNamer wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
3 dimensional square. Everything within 5 feet.
Noctaem wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
This brings back memories of the time I had players running around on the surface of a tesseract.