Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Schwarg Jul 12, 2015 11:44:51	Stunning Strike as it relates to Solo Bosses, mainly, allows the monk to call for a DC Con save of 13-14 depending on your build, multiple times in a round to stun a baddie often a major boss, for the rest of the party to take out fairly easily. A player in my group has done this the past few end fights with bosses and its starting to take away the flair and creativity of the party and cool combats when it comes to solo encounters. Even with high Con bosses, the odds are they would fail first round. Do I make them flying? I would have to either isolate the monk everytime or expect end game encounters end with it being stunned.    Should Stunning Strike at least be a bonus action to limit it to once around or have it where the creature is immune to the effect for 24 hours if it makes a save once. Something like that might make sense.    Not sure. Looking for opinions as I'm still unsure how I feel about it all. the next encounter the group might have, I may have a monk that goes around stunning the party. See how they feel about it...   Please advise.  -Schwarg
#2 mellored Jul 12, 2015 12:07:18	You could simply allow monks to be awsome against solo bosses.  That's kinda their niche.   Revenge isn't good.  It's not PvDM.  But nothig wrong with throwing a monk at them. I mean, you could easily just make more bosses.
#3 Schwarg Jul 12, 2015 12:31:34	Throwing a monk at them not for revenge but so they can feel the awesomeness of it.    But, yeah, I really haven't cared much, but it's coming from some of the other players... I am kind of fine with it but if the group isn't, the question is are others finding the same issue in their game.    Polymorph, Hold Person... there are plenty of other moves other characters have but nothing to this level, I don't see. No other character has a multiple save attack like this... Maybe on Rays... Not sure.    So that's why I'm throwing it out there.    I'm no hard core black and white guy. I can easily adjust encounters to fit the rules, but if the masters of rules is hearing it from others, that would be good to know.    JI
#4 Yunru Jul 12, 2015 12:59:22	How is it the solo boss doesn't have a legendary save? Or at least a high con? At a messily 14 con the Big Bad has a 50% chance of saving if he's proficient in Con saves.
#5 mellored Jul 12, 2015 13:10:08	then i suggest having less solo bosses. stunning attack doesn't work well against mobs.
(Reply to #4) Schwarg	Yunru wrote:
#7 jaelis Jul 12, 2015 13:50:52	Change it if you like and see how it goes.
#8 Xeviat-DM Jul 12, 2015 16:41:26	The power of stunning attack makes the Four Elements monk's spells look weak.
#9 jaelis Jul 12, 2015 16:49:59	True, part of what makes Open Hand monks the best is that they don't rely on ki-driven abilities that (fail to) compete with stunning attack/FoB.
#10 mellored Jul 12, 2015 20:18:01	eh... having AoE can be useful for a monk. maing them good against hordes and solo's. unless there's some other AoE in the party. which is usually the case.
(Reply to #6) FrogReaver	Schwarg wrote:
#12 Schwarg Jul 13, 2015 0:00:39	Why is it not a bonus action? The other abilities require a bonus action. It seems they wanted it to be an auto stun if the monk had them saved up, as Mellored put it, they are awesome at solo bosses. Are other classes like that or other class abilities. I can think of the holds, polymorph spells, or levitate for incapacitating baddies, but again all of them have one shot of doing it... Portent and Lucky can get you auto hold or close to it... I'm just thinking it might be a little off is all. I guess the monk needs to be a little sexy this way. It's the best ability they have.
#13 Yunru Jul 13, 2015 1:36:52	Because that would suck. Monk damage, FoB and damage die asides, caps at level 5, where they branch into control.
#14 El_Condoro Jul 13, 2015 2:45:31	Thanks for this thread - I have not played, not DMed a monk character and did not know about this feature. I had to read and re-read the description because it seemed so OP. No way could they have meant that, but it's RAW. So, forewarned is forearmed and I will be doing some things as a DM if a monk with this feature is in the party: 1. Making sure the boss has plenty of minions to keep the monk occupied; 2. Have 1 or more pseudo-boss combats beforehand to draw off the ki points; 3. Make sure the boss has immunity to non-magical damage (as a lot do). Fighters, and other classes get Extra Attack at 5th level, which is a nice feature but it is nowhere near as nice as causing damage and having a very good chance of incapacitating an enemy on a hit. Too much IMO.
#15 Yunru Jul 13, 2015 2:54:38	Maybe too front loaded, but to say too much just shows that you've never played as/with/for a Monk. They're fine.
#16 El_Condoro Jul 13, 2015 3:26:47	Yunru wrote:
#17 mellored Jul 13, 2015 5:23:32	Schwarg wrote:
#18 iserith Jul 13, 2015 6:42:25	Design better boss fights. Including additional monsters, hazards, and traps in the fight or alternative objectives is a simple way of making the scene more dynamic and challenging than just beating the snot out of a single monster. Here is an (admittedly silly) example.   Also, are your players actually having fun beating up on a creature that can't fight back a good deal of the time? Is trivializing the presumably climactic battle of the adventure or story arc exciting and memorable?  If the monk's player can't answer "Yes" to both of the questions I asked, then he or she should consider doing something else. You see, it's not enough to choose the most optimal tactic in a battle - that tactic must also lead to a good time for everyone and the creation of an exciting, memorable story. This is the only way to "win" at D&D according to the Basic Rules.
#19 FactOfFiction Jul 13, 2015 12:10:45	If you are making custom monsters you can also (occasionally) have a monster with multiple heads or other body parts that are separate subject to single target crowd control. Last time I had my PCs facing a solo dragon - while he had a single hp pool - crowd control effects against him had to be targeted either at his head (stopping him from using beath weapon and bite attacks), one of his arms (causing him to drop anyone he had grappled and stopping him from making two claw attacks), wings (stoping him from taking flight into a dive attack) or legs (reducing his movement speed to half and causing him to drop prone after moving more than half his speed in one round). While the monk was a bit frustrated at first - in the end he felt much more usefull compared to facing legendary resistance and the fight was more enjoyable.   Another mechanic I like to use with my boss monsters is an enrage mechanic that increases the damage or number of attacks of a monster progressively for each round he remains stunned. While stunning him is still a net loss for him - keeping the monster crown controlled too much can cause him to oneshot a more squishy party member without the cleric having time to intervene with healing.
#20 Slagger_the_Chuul Jul 14, 2015 0:46:58	As a variant of having additional monsters or independent body parts, you could instead have a boss that goes all One-Winged Angel; transforming into a secondary form when you defeat the first one.  It's basically just two enemies, with the second one automatically turning up when the first one is defeated.
#21 Speedo Jul 14, 2015 4:28:53	I dont see the problem. A fighter and a barbarian are better then monk in almost all fighting situations. Yes the monk can stun one solo monster, that is maybe the only situation where the monks pull ahead. Remember that you should make players feel usefull. If it means that sometimes a fight is easy, then good for the group. A spellcaster can make the solo blind, which can end the fight right there. Are you gonna make the spellcasting more difficult?   Let the individual characters shine at moments, makes for enjoyable game for the players. Make encounters that let the group shine together sometimes, so you create cooperation spirit in the group. Also make some encounters that are really challanging for some characters, an encounter that hits their weak spots. That way you can balance the game and make it exciting for the players.