So when a party (players or monsters) get surprised, we roll initiative as normal. But when some surprised characters are before the actuall surpriser, how is it played out?
Example:
A band of goblins try to surprise a party of adventurers. They roll a 17 on there stealth ability while hiding along the road.
The adventurers are following the road and aren't really looking around, so there passive perceptions fail to see the goblins.
We roll for initiative and the layout is as follows:
Player 1,
Player 2,
Goblins,
Player 3,
Player 4.
ROUND 1:
Player 1 doesn't know whats up. He just walks.
Player 2 doesn't know whats up. He just walks.
The goblins jump out, run towards the adventurers and attack!
Player 3 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
Player 4 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
ROUND 2:
Player 1 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
Player 2 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
Goblins attack and make there actions,
Player 3 makes his actions like normal,
Player 4 makes his actions like normal
Is this correct?!?
Naturally speaking, any character that isn't surprised can act on his/her turn without being surprised.
CFK wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
This is a prime example of why I don't start combat encounters until there's an actual reason to do so. This is the way I interpret the rules and how your scenario would work at my table:
Example:
A band of goblins try to surprise a party of adventurers. They roll a 17 on there stealth ability while hiding along the road.
The adventurers are following the road and aren't really looking around, so there passive perceptions fail to see the goblins.
Step 1: The goblins jump out and surprise the adventurers who failed to detect their presence. This is what causes combat to begin and what makes surprise happen in the first place. Until this happens, there is no reason to roll initiative or start combat or do basically anything. Until then, all that's happening in the scenario is the group walking down a road.
Two points:
I tend to run it the same way Noctaem does, even going a bit further and sometimes letting the "surprisers" more than a single attack before calling for Initiative.
But you want to realize this isn't quite supported in the rules. Attacking is combat, and the combat rules call for inititative right away, and acting in that order. So in your example,
Combat Starts, Init is rolled and...
ROUND 1:
Player 1 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
Player 2 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
The goblins jump out, run towards the adventurers and attack!
Player 3 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
Player 4 is surprised and can't take any actions or whatsoever.
ROUND 2:
Player 1 makes his actions like normal,
Player 2 makes his actions like normal,
Goblins attack and make there actions,
Player 3 makes his actions like normal,
Player 4 makes his actions like normal
Noctaem wrote:
Here I thought the wizard was ambushing someone with a confusion spell 
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
There seem to be two separate sources of confusion, partly because 5e isn't the same as earlier editions or other games.
One arises from thinking that a creature's turn lasts through to the next round until the start of its own next turn. It doesn't. It stops when the next creature in the initiative order takes over. Your turn doesn't overlap with the other guy's. Turns are shorter than rounds.
The other arises from thinking that surprise is a benefit that (in this case) the goblins have during their turns. It isn't. It's a dis-benefit that (in this case) the PCs have until they each recover from it individually. And that happens in intiative order, during the first round.
If you are surprised, you have to spend your entire first turn doing something that could fairly be called "recovering from being surprised" and then your turn ends, you are no longer surprised, and it's the next guy's turn.
BoldItalic wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Yes.
Synjin wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Synjin wrote:
Synjin wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Right I didn't include outside sources that could negate surprise, like the alert feat, since the premise was that the party would be surprised but the above seems correct in a situation where some players have the alert feat and some do not.
Ok, different question:
what if the goblin had shot his crossbow to initiate combat?
From the combat section, there is no 'Do X to initiate combat" Shooting a crossbow *is* combat, and the rules break up combat into rounds with initiative.
So the way the rules parse, when one person decides to attack, combat has started, and thus initiative is rolled. The DM also determines who is surprised at that point.
Then the combatants get to act on their initiative step (unless they are surprised, then they get to be shocked on their init step.)
Now, this leads to some goofy situations; so I do basically what Noctaem does. If it is a true Ambush type situation, I allow one person (Sometimes more, but rare) to act as the 'starters gun'. Once that one person fires, then folks roll for initiative. But that is a house rule.