Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 teamwrong Dec 07, 2014 22:16:51	The search function on this is not the greatest so if this has been addressed already I apologize.   What happens if more than 1 player in a group is trying to sneak for surprise. Say player 1 gets 16 on their roll and player 2 gets 12 on their roll. The passive detection for the monster is 14. So player 2 would surprise the monster but player 1 wouldn't? Can't have both situations as a surprised monster/player loses all actions.
#2 Kentus Dec 07, 2014 22:29:03	Normally, the monster wouldn't be surprised at all, since it noticed something is wrong. It wouldn't detect player 1 automatically, but there would be no surprise round.
#3 Daydreamer80 Dec 07, 2014 22:55:13	The player who is not spotted by it , might be able to attack with advantage, but he woudlnt have a free turn because the monster is suprised.   Think of it in reverse.  If 5 goblins try to sneak up on your pcs but one of them knocks over a vase alerting the pcs to there general presense, the pcs wont be suprised.
#4 Kennethray Dec 08, 2014 12:31:46	From my understanding there is always a surprise round, just that if noone is surprised then everyone gets to act.  First round (surprise round) everyone rolls init. If PC 1 goes first and the mobs do not know he is there, even if they know of PC 2, then PC gets his surprise attack. If Mobs go first and they only know of PC 2, then their attacks are limit to just that PC.  Everyone rolls init on surprise round and are only able to act if they know there is something for them TO act to. After their init order they are able to use their reactions, even if they were surprised.     K-Ray
#5 Noon Dec 08, 2014 22:50:00	A monster that fails to notice a threat is surprised. If they notice any threat, they aren't surprised.   Sneaking and surprise are a pain in this edition as it's left up to the GM - one GM will make everyone roll stealth, so the rogue will always fail to get a surprise round (someone will no doubt get a low number or have disadvantage) while other GM's will let the rogue be a seperate group than the main party and roll stealth by themselves, with a good chance for a surprise round.   So how it works depends more on the disposition of your GM, but at the same time the design of the rules means a lot of GM's will go with the predictable fail option of everyone rolls stealth.
#6 Ashrym Dec 09, 2014 11:56:54	This is a case where a group roll can simplify your process. The party helps each other so everyone rolls stealth versus the highest passive perception of the targets and if 50% or more of the group succeeds then the group succeeds for surprise.
#7 Drycanth Dec 09, 2014 12:09:17	That is where you as DM need to decide based on the actions of the players how to rule the situation.   Are they sneaking togeather at the same time?   Is one following the others route?    Which one is in the lead?   What is the environment they are sneaking in like?       There are too many factors to consider a blanket rule for this type of situation.   For example if both characters are sneaking up on a group of orcs that are camping in the woods and they split up and approach from opposite sides one being noticed would not mean that the other was.   For an opposite example if they are sneaking one after the other down a dusty corridor and the first one is spotted by the orc sentry the second would also be spotted since he is in the same location and moving in the same narrow path.
#8 Noon Dec 09, 2014 15:10:48	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #8) Ashrym	Noon wrote:
#10 Noon Dec 10, 2014 3:38:34	Thanks, Ashrym. Yeah, I think that'd work well - but I think, with lost mine of phandelver not using it with the initial goblin encounter, a lot of GM's are going to look past the rule.   I'll suggest it to the GM next time he asks for stealth rolls - but the thing is he might just continue with individual rolls.
#11 paulstrait Dec 10, 2014 20:54:35	Daydreamer80 wrote:
#12 Noon Dec 11, 2014 19:21:33	Yeah, the rules (if not using group rolls) make it all or nothing - if you pass, well you'll get a surprise round and they didn't see you, so advantage as well.   But if just one of you fails, then you get nothing.   The rules don't have an in between (though group rolls could act as a sort of in between)
#13 guachi Dec 12, 2014 12:22:54	Things I've done to make surprise more possible and effective:   I am playing an Assassin so getting surprise is critical (pun intended!!! Thank you. I'll be here all week). I begged/threatened the Ranger to get Pass Without a Trace (+ 10 Stealth). I let her use my Cloak of Elvenkind (it's Adventurers League, so I can't actually trade it to her until she has something she can trade back). We are level 4. I have + 17 to Stealth and she has +15 and advantage. I begged/threatened the Cleric to get Guidance cantrip and cast it on me for +1d4 to my Stealth. We sneak ahead and as long as it's possible to succeed, we basically always do. The Ranger has Sharpshooter, I have Assassinate. We do uber-damage (if we hit). We have a preset signal to alert the party. It varies but I've used my Bonus Action to interact with an object that makes noise or pull the cover off stone with Light cast on it. Whatever. Sometimes our signal is me running away on my bonus action.