Sword and shield plus spell focus - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Nerulla Sep 13, 2014 19:08:13	My understanding of a spell focus is that a player can hold a focus in one hand, and with that hand a player can use the spell focus (which substitutes for components) and provide the somatic components required. Now paladins are allowed to have spell focuses inlaid in their shields. Does this mean that a paladin that is using a 1 handed weapon and a shield could provide both the material components (spell focus) and the somatic components of a spell without every putting away his shield or sword. to me this seems to make sense but I'm curious what RAW would be and I can't seem to find the answer in the PHB. Thanks in advance
#2 Nerulla Sep 13, 2014 19:49:00	Just to clarify the reason this is important is due to the fact that RAW states you can only draw or sheathe a weapon in a single round without using an action not both. Therefore if I have to sheathe a sword to cAst a spell with somatic components I would not have a weapon for any reaction attacks I may be eligible for.
#3 DM_HEEGZ Sep 13, 2014 20:00:41	the paladin with holy symbol emblazoned on his shield can cast without sheathing his sword. there are a few other threads floating around about this. i can't seem to figure out the search function or i'd find and link them, sorry.
(Reply to #3) Nerulla	I also can't figure out the search function which is why I had to make the post. This is unfortunate as rules forums become a lot less useful without this feature. Ty for the response. I was hoping someone would confirm this as if it didn't work this way it seemed to me the paladin and cleric would be less appealing at least to me and my play group
#5 DM_HEEGZ Sep 13, 2014 20:18:52	The info you want is on p. 151 in the PHB. Both clerics and paladins can use a holy symbol as a spell casting focus. To do this, it must be held in hand, worn visibly, or on a shield. A holy symbol costs 5gp. My current paladin spent 5gp to put the emblem on his shield, and another 5gp for an amulet which also hangs prominently from his neck outside of his armor plate. This way he can ditch his shield and use his battleaxe two handed, without losing his ability to cast while shieldless.
#6 Nerulla Sep 13, 2014 20:25:48	I saw that part. But that does not state that the shield hand could be used for somatic components. The reason I asked the question was because normally a hand with a shield in it could not be used for somatic components. But a spell focus can, so the fact thAt a shield is the spell focus was kinda contradicting when it came to somatic components of spells.
#7 DM_HEEGZ Sep 13, 2014 20:44:31	Yeah, this came up in one of the other threads. I believe you can use the shield hand, or the symbol for somatic bits. I guess a DM could rule it strictly that it only covers material components. I generally gloss over component costs though, as it just drags down gameplay and is a bit of minutia I don't have time for. Same goes for arrows and food, and bathroom breaks, etc. [edit] Here's the other thread: http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4139086
(Reply to #7) reddaemon	DM_HEEGZ wrote:
#9 Nerulla Sep 13, 2014 21:04:20	Ty for the link, it cleared up this whole question fr me. basically spell focuses replace material components and the same hand that uses components can also be used for somatic components. Because of this a spell focus can be used for both material and somatic components as long as the focus is something that is being held in the characters hand. When the focus is something that is not being held in a hand (necklace) then the character must still provide the somatic components by having an open hand.
#10 bladedragon03 Sep 13, 2014 22:09:58	You could cast while sword and board with the war caster feat. S.M.V. Should be covered with that feat.
#11 Guest703856308 Sep 15, 2014 6:52:03	reddaemon wrote:
#12 Jamwes Sep 15, 2014 9:01:06	Guest703856308 wrote:
#13 bladedragon03 Sep 15, 2014 10:07:32	For clerics and paladins even if they have a holy symbol in their shield or on their neck they still need a free hand for the S. the holy symbol only makes it so you don't need the M. It makes the shield a spell focus like a wand or crystal does for wiz. There for a paladin Or cleric would also still need the warcaster feat to be sword and board and still be able to do the S. If you have a two handed weapon for an eldrich knight I don't see that being possible because of the M. unless the weapon is able to be a spell focus.
(Reply to #13) AaronOfBarbaria	bladedragon03 wrote:
#15 bladedragon03 Sep 15, 2014 11:46:04	What spells require somatic components? I'm a little confused on the difference between a spell that requires S,M and a somatic component.
#16 Guest703856308 Sep 15, 2014 20:58:58	bladedragon03 wrote:
(Reply to #16) AaronOfBarbaria	Guest703856308 wrote:
#18 Devils-Advocate Sep 16, 2014 13:05:05	There is definitely some ambiguity in the RAW. The rules for material components state: ...A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell... A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she used to perform somatic components.
#19 FluffyBunbunKittens Sep 16, 2014 14:12:29	Of course, Mearls has also said that you can sheathe a weapon and draw another in one 'free' action, so if we're taking everything they've said on Twitter as fact, then you can sheathe your weapon, cast what you want, and whip it out again. And then the whole reason for those rules sentences becomes 'you cannot open a door while casting with a weapon in hand. Oh, and **** Eldritch Knights who want to use Shield as reaction, we got a feat tax for you'.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Nerulla

Sep 13, 2014 19:08:13

My understanding of a spell focus is that a player can hold a focus in one hand, and with that hand a player can use the spell focus (which substitutes for components) and provide the somatic components required.

Now paladins are allowed to have spell focuses inlaid in their shields.

Does this mean that a paladin that is using a 1 handed weapon and a shield could provide both the material components (spell focus) and the somatic components of a spell without every putting away his shield or sword.

to me this seems to make sense but I'm curious what RAW would be and I can't seem to find the answer in the PHB.

Thanks in advance

Nerulla

Sep 13, 2014 19:49:00

Just to clarify the reason this is important is due to the fact that RAW states you can only draw or sheathe a weapon in a single round without using an action not both.

Therefore if I have to sheathe a sword to cAst a spell with somatic components I would not have a weapon for any reaction attacks I may be eligible for.

DM_HEEGZ

Sep 13, 2014 20:00:41

the paladin with holy symbol emblazoned on his shield can cast without sheathing his sword. there are a few other threads floating around about this. i can't seem to figure out the search function or i'd find and link them, sorry.

(Reply to #3)

Nerulla

I also can't figure out the search function which is why I had to make the post. This is unfortunate as rules forums become a lot less useful without this feature.

Ty for the response. I was hoping someone would confirm this as if it didn't work this way it seemed to me the paladin and cleric would be less appealing at least to me and my play group

DM_HEEGZ

Sep 13, 2014 20:18:52

The info you want is on p. 151 in the PHB. Both clerics and paladins can use a holy symbol as a spell casting focus. To do this, it must be held in hand, worn visibly, or on a shield. A holy symbol costs 5gp. My current paladin spent 5gp to put the emblem on his shield, and another 5gp for an amulet which also hangs prominently from his neck outside of his armor plate. This way he can ditch his shield and use his battleaxe two handed, without losing his ability to cast while shieldless.

Nerulla

Sep 13, 2014 20:25:48

I saw that part. But that does not state that the shield hand could be used for somatic components.

The reason I asked the question was because normally a hand with a shield in it could not be used for somatic components. But a spell focus can, so the fact thAt a shield is the spell focus was kinda contradicting when it came to somatic components of spells.

DM_HEEGZ

Sep 13, 2014 20:44:31

Yeah, this came up in one of the other threads. I believe you can use the shield hand, or the symbol for somatic bits. I guess a DM could rule it strictly that it only covers material components. I generally gloss over component costs though, as it just drags down gameplay and is a bit of minutia I don't have time for. Same goes for arrows and food, and bathroom breaks, etc.

[edit]

Here's the other thread:

http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4139086

(Reply to #7)

reddaemon

DM_HEEGZ wrote:

Nerulla

Sep 13, 2014 21:04:20

Ty for the link, it cleared up this whole question fr me.

basically spell focuses replace material components and the same hand that uses components can also be used for somatic components. Because of this a spell focus can be used for both material and somatic components as long as the focus is something that is being held in the characters hand.

When the focus is something that is not being held in a hand (necklace) then the character must still provide the somatic components by having an open hand.

#10

bladedragon03

Sep 13, 2014 22:09:58

You could cast while sword and board with the war caster feat. S.M.V. Should be covered with that feat.

#11

Guest703856308

Sep 15, 2014 6:52:03

reddaemon wrote:

#12

Jamwes

Sep 15, 2014 9:01:06

Guest703856308 wrote:

#13

bladedragon03

Sep 15, 2014 10:07:32

For clerics and paladins even if they have a holy symbol in their shield or on their neck they still need a free hand for the S. the holy symbol only makes it so you don't need the M. It makes the shield a spell focus like a wand or crystal does for wiz.

There for a paladin Or cleric would also still need the warcaster feat to be sword and board and still be able to do the S.

If you have a two handed weapon for an eldrich knight I don't see that being possible because of the M. unless the weapon is able to be a spell focus.

(Reply to #13)

AaronOfBarbaria

bladedragon03 wrote:

#15

bladedragon03

Sep 15, 2014 11:46:04

What spells require somatic components? I'm a little confused on the difference between a spell that requires S,M and a somatic component.

#16

Guest703856308

Sep 15, 2014 20:58:58

bladedragon03 wrote:

(Reply to #16)

AaronOfBarbaria

Guest703856308 wrote:

#18

Devils-Advocate

Sep 16, 2014 13:05:05

There is definitely some ambiguity in the RAW. The rules for material components state:

...A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell...

A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she used to perform somatic components.

#19

FluffyBunbunKittens

Sep 16, 2014 14:12:29

Of course, Mearls has also said that you can sheathe a weapon and draw another in one 'free' action, so if we're taking everything they've said on Twitter as fact, then you can sheathe your weapon, cast what you want, and whip it out again. And then the whole reason for those rules sentences becomes 'you cannot open a door while casting with a weapon in hand. Oh, and **** Eldritch Knights who want to use Shield as reaction, we got a feat tax for you'.