If someone is surrounded the darkness spell can they be targeted if line of sight is required? Would it be a target with disadvantage?
Is targeting this enemy with a spell the same as with a physical attack?
Can a caster cast the darkness spell on their clothes or something they can wear?
Can you give an example of a spell needing line of sight?
Normally it would be the same as targeting with a physical attack. Darkness can be cast on an object you are holding, I would assume this includes wearing.
Scorching ray for example requires an attack roll.
Magic missle says you only need to be able to see the target.
To my understanding, if you want to make an attack roll into the darkness you take disadvantage.
Magic missle states that you need to see the target, so you can't cast that unless you negate the darkness.
CFK wrote:
Macv12 wrote:
It gets worse than that fellas
"When you attack a target that you can’t see, you have
disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether
you’re guessing the target’s location or you’re targeting
a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn’t in
the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but
the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not
whether you guessed the target’s location correctly."
so if can't see the creature and you don't have prior knowledge of its position then you have GUESS the location or autimatically miss!
so let's say walk into a room with darned cast on it. You don't just get to say "I fire into the room in a random direction" and role with disadvantage. No, you have to say "I fire at that particular square there". If you miraculously pick the right one THEN you roll with disadvantage
Sorry auto correct error. darkness not darned 
You get a perception vs stealth check to see if you can determine their location.
Fair enough stealth vs perception sounds reasonable but there would be a stacked advantage/disadvantage
That is, character rolling stealth gets advantage because he CANNOT BE SEEN. Character rolling perception gets disadvantage because he CANNOT SEE. this is because darkness spell imposes two distinct conditions for each character. I can elaborate further if required.
No, its a straight check, thats what the book says. The check is to determine the location of a creature you can't see. Other factors could contribute to give advantage or disadvantage, as appropriate.
And normally that would be correct but in the case of the spell Darkness there are " other factors"
1) the creature inside darkness is for intents and purposes "invisible"
2) the creature looking INTO an area of darkness is for all intents and purposes BLIND with respect things inside the darkness area of effect
This may sound odd but contrast to the following:
Scenario1: invisible creature walks past you. How do you determine his location? He rolls stealth with advantage and you roll straight perception
Scenario2: creature walks past you. You are blind. He rolls straight stealth. You roll perception with disadvantage
Scenario3: the scenario relevant to darkness, He is invisible to you AND you are blind with respect any visual cue that he's there (eg footprints, movement of leaves etc)
Its a subtle but important difference. The only reason you are able even make a check in the first place is that invisible creature leave clues ( footprints, squeaky armour, body odour). If you can't detect some of these "clues" you are by definition disadvantaged
p3ck wrote:
You can apply disadvantage to the perception role because of the lack of additional clues, if you feel that's appropriate, but you don't also give advantage to the person in darkness. The difficulty of seeing them has already been addressed on the "perceiving" side of the equation.
And unseen-ness imposes disadvantage on attack rolls, nothing else. Again, being unseen is a precondition for hiding; it doesn't then apply a bonus to that same hide check.
The check is to see if you can hear them. Just like if they were hidden behind cover. No reason for disadvantage.
I see both points of view. The problem I have is that with darkness you have to find a way to determine the targets location BEFOE you can even attempt an attack because as per RAW you automatically miss otherwise! That's right folks, you don't even get to attack!!! (Read PHB exert above)
Sorry I should say, you can attack, you just automatically miss
p3ck wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
p3ck wrote:
p3ck wrote:
ThGood we are in agreement then Lawrencehoy. Thanks for comment.
MickeySmith there is your answer. Before you target the enemy (with disadvantage) you would first need to determine its location via some form of perception check. If you fail that perception check you do not know where the enemy is a you MISS AUTOMATICALLY. As suggested in the PHB the DM does not need to inform you how it failed.
As suggested above you can increase chances hugely by AOE but that is targeted at a point rather than a specific target thus not relevant to your query
Well you don't miss automatically, you might guess the right location and then roll well.
Also, isn't your disadvantage cancelled by advantage, since they can't see you either?
jaelis wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
"When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the roll... When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it."
jaelis wrote:
p3ck wrote:
Agree
jaelis wrote:
I just want to make sure that one detail is crystal clear here. If someone is just standing in darkness, there is no perception needed to know that they are there. If someone is in darkness and has rolled stealth to HIDE and has beaten the passive perception of creatures around them, then an active perception check is required to find that person. Or you can attack at random in the darkness and hope you hit but at disadvantage. I haven't seen this distinction being clearly made. Simply being invisible or in darkness does not mean other creatures don't know where you are. If you manage to hide however, that's when creatures don't know. It's one of the main benefits of being hidden.
Expect a lot of table variation on this, the topic as been discussed ad nauseam on other threads.
A straight by-the-book ruling says that you have to take the hide action to be hidden. If you are not hidden, everyone knows exactly where you are.
The other viewpoint is that the DM needs to use common sense. Is the target making a lot of noise and relatively close? You probably know where they are. Are they in a cloud of darkness hundreds of feet away? You may not even know they're there.
On a related note, I would rule that if you are firing a ray or an arrow that you don't target a specific location, you are targeting everything in a line.
As always, I would say the DM should make a ruling that makes sense to them and that works for their group .
OoftaMeg wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
lol whatever Coredump. Feel free to claim the rest of the PHB is not actually the rules too. See how far that gets you.
OoftaMeg wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Noctaem wrote: